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Why not be happy they believe in God?
#31
(06-27-2013, 01:08 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I Kings 22:19. And he said, "Therefore, listen to the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord seated on His throne, and all the host of heaven were standing by Him on His right and on His left

"Court" is inferred. Only specifics, and throne is specific. That is it.
#32
(06-28-2013, 02:33 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: All that the Hebrew version of the "Let us make" means is a plurality of majesty, such as when the head of a country or organization makes a declaration on behalf of the entire entity saying something like, "We have decided to ...". Here are the Christian scholarly resources that agree with this:

You claim Elohim is by himself though. The head of a country or organization is made up of many individuals, not one single individual. Hence "we" and "us" are always plural to mean more than One individual. Your whole 'plurality of majesty' thing is made up to infer the opposite of a literal meaning. Plurality is more than one. You are describing singularity of majesty is the meaning of "us" which is plural. Contradiction in terms there. Do you tell people you're headed to the store by yourself and then bring three of your friends? You people practically speak a different language. Yes means yes, and no means no. Same with us and we. I can always tell a load of baloney by Jews and Christians when you start typing phrases that don't even exist anywhere in the OT or NT.
#33
(06-29-2013, 07:10 PM)Tzuar1 Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 05:25 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 01:08 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:
(06-25-2013, 03:22 PM)Tzuar1 Wrote:
(06-17-2013, 06:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: I think you just quoted a verse that doesn't exist either? Where does the Tanakh say messiah is part of the Heavenly Court?
Where is heavenly court written in the Tanakh? Read Revelation for the throne that Christ will sit on and the what goes on in Heaven.
I Kings 22:19. And he said, "Therefore, listen to the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord seated on His throne, and all the host of heaven were standing by Him on His right and on His left
Okay, the verse above says Hashem sits on the throne, not messiah. Where does Tanakh say messiah sits on the heavenly throne?

Messiah isn't even written in all the places where you claim it is about Messiah! So it doesn't say Messiah sits on the throne, but the Tanakh doesn't specifically say that King David is used as some type of equivocation to Messiah either. Nor does it specifically say anything regarding Messiah, other than Immanuel and the Anointed One in Daniel. That is it. Everything else is extrapolated by your sect. In the NT the Father allows it of Christ to sit on the throne. And, Apostle John seen "many" thrones in Heaven. And, it is written that the 12 Apostles that walked with Christ will judge the 12 tribes of Israel. So if you don't believe that as well, there really isn't a point to telling you. You have your mind made up, so what is the point of speaking with you?
The point is if you can't prove your assertions, why do you believe it? Messiah is written nowhere in the Tanakh. What we find is the word in the Hebrew, mashiach, which means anointed. Even Daniel 9 doesn't mention messiah, it uses the word mashiach.

The name Immanuel doesn't refer to mashiach either in Isaiah 9:6(5). Since Yeshua after his resurrection tried to convince people of his messiahship through the Torah and Tanakh, you should be able to as well. That's why I don't believe you or any other Christian because when questioned, they cannot prove it.

I think you have your mind made up without proving anything.
#34
(06-29-2013, 07:11 PM)Tzuar1 Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 01:08 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I Kings 22:19. And he said, "Therefore, listen to the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord seated on His throne, and all the host of heaven were standing by Him on His right and on His left

"Court" is inferred. Only specifics, and throne is specific. That is it.

I find it odd you say something is "inferred". That is the whole basis of seeing jc in the Hebrew bible. It is inferred!

Back to the topic at hand. So it says "all of the host of heaven". In your opinion, what exactly do you think the host of heaven is?
#35
(06-29-2013, 07:20 PM)Tzuar1 Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 02:33 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: All that the Hebrew version of the "Let us make" means is a plurality of majesty, such as when the head of a country or organization makes a declaration on behalf of the entire entity saying something like, "We have decided to ...". Here are the Christian scholarly resources that agree with this:

You claim Elohim is by himself though. The head of a country or organization is made up of many individuals, not one single individual. Hence "we" and "us" are always plural to mean more than One individual. Your whole 'plurality of majesty' thing is made up to infer the opposite of a literal meaning. Plurality is more than one. You are describing singularity of majesty is the meaning of "us" which is plural. Contradiction in terms there. Do you tell people you're headed to the store by yourself and then bring three of your friends? You people practically speak a different language. Yes means yes, and no means no. Same with us and we. I can always tell a load of baloney by Jews and Christians when you start typing phrases that don't even exist anywhere in the OT or NT.

So let's see now, all of the Christian scholars and bibles listed who agree with the Jewish thought are speaking a different language?

Yes, the head of a country is made up of many individuals. You are getting warm. But there is only one King. A King that speaks is one, but when he speaks of his on behalf on his entity, he includes them in the plural.

Let's get back to the "inferred" word. Let's say I agree with your opinion that it means plurality of G-d (G-d forbid!). You seem to be inferring it means 3. Where do you see anything in the text that refers to 3 in 1??? You made that up since it is no where to be found.
#36
(06-30-2013, 04:02 PM)Nachshon Wrote: The point is if you can't prove your assertions, why do you believe it? Messiah is written nowhere in the Tanakh. What we find is the word in the Hebrew, mashiach, which means anointed. Even Daniel 9 doesn't mention messiah, it uses the word mashiach.

You can't prove your assertions. The Tanach doesn't say Jesus Christ of Nazareth claiming to be able to forgive men of their sins from the power of God is a liar. You just try to use the Tanach to assert without proof.

(06-30-2013, 04:02 PM)Nachshon Wrote: The name Immanuel doesn't refer to mashiach either in Isaiah 9:6(5). Since Yeshua after his resurrection tried to convince people of his messiahship through the Torah and Tanakh, you should be able to as well. That's why I don't believe you or any other Christian because when questioned, they cannot prove it.

I think you have your mind made up without proving anything.

Read Acts chapter 2. What Jesus used of the Tanach and Torah is not written of very much, it is written he taught in the Synagogue, but his entire sermon is not given what is written are the many miracles Christ did. He said he is the Son of God, and that God gave him the power to forgive men of their sins on earth. That is what is written, and directly from Christ as quoted by those who were there to hear him. Everything else is what others said about him.

Proof? I don't need no stinkin proof, I have faith...
#37
(07-03-2013, 05:45 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I find it odd you say something is "inferred". That is the whole basis of seeing jc in the Hebrew bible. It is inferred!

Back to the topic at hand. So it says "all of the host of heaven". In your opinion, what exactly do you think the host of heaven is?

You find it odd? He just said 'plurality of majesty'. That phrase is entirely made up. The inferences along with that are just inference not even based on what is truly written. At least when people believe Messiah is Christ in the Tanach it is based on what is actually there.

I don't think the host of heaven is plurality of majesty. Whatever that is. That sounds like something a Catholic would say.
#38
(07-03-2013, 05:52 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote: So let's see now, all of the Christian scholars and bibles listed who agree with the Jewish thought are speaking a different language?

Yes, the head of a country is made up of many individuals. You are getting warm. But there is only one King. A King that speaks is one, but when he speaks of his on behalf on his entity, he includes them in the plural.

Let's get back to the "inferred" word. Let's say I agree with your opinion that it means plurality of G-d (G-d forbid!). You seem to be inferring it means 3. Where do you see anything in the text that refers to 3 in 1??? You made that up since it is no where to be found.

All of the Christian scholars who agree with the Jewish thought, agree. I don't. There will be Christians who fall away and deny Christ, obviously their denial will agree with others who also deny Christ. So they would be speaking the same language to put it in a figurative way.

I don't believe in 3 in 1 though. The New Testament speaks of Adonai, The Holy Spirit and Jesus. I believe these 3 do the will of Adonai and are in one accord with each other.

1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Three agree in one does not equal 3 in 1.

Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.2 John 1

1 John:5-13

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he has testified of his Son.

He that believes on the Son of God has the witness in himself: he that believes not God has made him a liar; because he believes not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life. These things have I written to you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John:5-13
#39
(07-13-2013, 03:13 AM)Tzuar1 Wrote:
(06-30-2013, 04:02 PM)Nachshon Wrote: The point is if you can't prove your assertions, why do you believe it? Messiah is written nowhere in the Tanakh. What we find is the word in the Hebrew, mashiach, which means anointed. Even Daniel 9 doesn't mention messiah, it uses the word mashiach.
You can't prove your assertions. The Tanach doesn't say Jesus Christ of Nazareth claiming to be able to forgive men of their sins from the power of God is a liar. You just try to use the Tanach to assert without proof.
The burden of proof is on those trying to prove Yeshua is messiah, not the other way around. I proved my point above in the Hebrew. Where's yours?

(07-13-2013, 03:13 AM)Tzuar1 Wrote:
(06-30-2013, 04:02 PM)Nachshon Wrote: The name Immanuel doesn't refer to mashiach either in Isaiah 9:6(5). Since Yeshua after his resurrection tried to convince people of his messiahship through the Torah and Tanakh, you should be able to as well. That's why I don't believe you or any other Christian because when questioned, they cannot prove it.

I think you have your mind made up without proving anything.
Read Acts chapter 2. What Jesus used of the Tanach and Torah is not written of very much, it is written he taught in the Synagogue, but his entire sermon is not given what is written are the many miracles Christ did. He said he is the Son of God, and that God gave him the power to forgive men of their sins on earth. That is what is written, and directly from Christ as quoted by those who were there to hear him. Everything else is what others said about him.

Proof? I don't need no stinkin proof, I have faith...
Prove your point in the Tanakh. That's what Yeshua tried to do, Luke 24:44.

Deut 4:35 "To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him". Faith is cheap and provides no real answers. Many people have faith in their gods.
#40
(07-13-2013, 10:29 PM)Nachshon Wrote: The burden of proof is on those trying to prove Yeshua is messiah, not the other way around. I proved my point above in the Hebrew. Where's yours?

An entire nations in ruins and dispersed throughout the land for disobedience, and a failed religious system called Judaism claiming they're more obedient than their ancestors and worthy of the life to come.

(06-30-2013, 04:02 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Prove your point in the Tanakh. That's what Yeshua tried to do, Luke 24:44.

Deut 4:35 "To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him". Faith is cheap and provides no real answers. Many people have faith in their gods.

Jesus never claimed to be another god, he claimed the Prophets and Psalms that were written about him, the requirement is that you have faith.

Faith is cheap huh? Pretty sad coming from a supposed Jew. As faith is what was exercised throughout the entire Tanach.

Habakkuk 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

You just made a gaffe. What a ridiculous, embarrassing and utterly non- Jewish thing to say.


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