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Law abiding vs legalism
#1
If a person follows the Law of God, that is law abiding, or abiding in His law...
The so called "christians" who follow the pagan roman system with all its man made traditions to try and worship God, or gain favour with God, are actually practicing legalism on an unprecedented scale..they think they can make pagan days Holy..ie Dec 25th, easter, sunday..and follow these days as if they actually come from God/Jesus...as they do not come from God..they are therefore from satan...
The pharisees of Jesus time were much the same adding to God's commandments some man made traditions, which was also legalism on a much smaller scale ..Jesus called them a brood of vipers, and hypocrits for doing this Matthew 23.....He sure would have some interesting chastisement for today's mainstream roman based "christianity" with all it's legalism, in the artificial man made traditions they follow...
#2
It's not. Jews were commanded to judge themselves, and make communityrulings. So The Almighty ordered to make man made traditions. But we have to search hard to keep them in the Spirit of Torah.
Besides this, a lot of what the Phariseans ask Jesus were not laws at that time, or never became laws, Jesus is mainly commenting on their customs. Making customs more important that the law is indeed often not the way it should be. But if you take it legalistically a custom is not legal law, so it is not legalism.
The Church had their own freedom, without a lot of specific commandments that The Almighty nor Jesus ordered. Jesus indeed did not say: ''celebrate my birthday'' (what was a Babylonian and later Roman custom), nor did he change The Almighty's Holy-days.
But indeed the Christian Testament lacks the correcting influence for it is not as in the Bible written over centuries, and then a Church-council desided what should be in the Christian Testament. The Church would not disagree with itself, and would filter out correctiontexts for political reasons, the Bible never did this, because we should learn from our mistakes and be honoust, so Jews kept our mistakes and when The Almighty was angry on us in the text to learn.
This is indeed one of the reasons, why Christians start to think that it does not mather what day they celebrate, because in the CT, Jesus nor The Almighty corrects Christianity. Maybe Jesus did correct some ways of his disciples, and Paul did choose himself to be against what and who, and Jacob had his own thoughts about it. But it didn't became a huge tradition how to learn from it, and how to recognize false prophets or how to deal with Christians who make mistakes. Then it becomes easy just to say, ''yes but that was not a true Christian''. etc.etc.
#3
So what about Thanksgiving? Do you celebrate that?
#4
(11-04-2012, 02:31 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: So what about Thanksgiving? Do you celebrate that?

Do you not give thanksgiving...thanksgiving is not just one articificial day created by traditions of man...it is a daily event, as well as on the Seventh day Sabbath each week...you are are stuck on this yearly thing, I pity you you need a lot of prayer!

(11-03-2012, 02:49 PM)Yetzirah231 Wrote: It's not. Jews were commanded to judge themselves, and make communityrulings. So The Almighty ordered to make man made traditions. But we have to search hard to keep them in the Spirit of Torah.
Besides this, a lot of what the Phariseans ask Jesus were not laws at that time, or never became laws, Jesus is mainly commenting on their customs. Making customs more important that the law is indeed often not the way it should be. But if you take it legalistically a custom is not legal law, so it is not legalism.
The Church had their own freedom, without a lot of specific commandments that The Almighty nor Jesus ordered. Jesus indeed did not say: ''celebrate my birthday'' (what was a Babylonian and later Roman custom), nor did he change The Almighty's Holy-days.
But indeed the Christian Testament lacks the correcting influence for it is not as in the Bible written over centuries, and then a Church-council desided what should be in the Christian Testament. The Church would not disagree with itself, and would filter out correctiontexts for political reasons, the Bible never did this, because we should learn from our mistakes and be honoust, so Jews kept our mistakes and when The Almighty was angry on us in the text to learn.
This is indeed one of the reasons, why Christians start to think that it does not mather what day they celebrate, because in the CT, Jesus nor The Almighty corrects Christianity. Maybe Jesus did correct some ways of his disciples, and Paul did choose himself to be against what and who, and Jacob had his own thoughts about it. But it didn't became a huge tradition how to learn from it, and how to recognize false prophets or how to deal with Christians who make mistakes. Then it becomes easy just to say, ''yes but that was not a true Christian''. etc.etc.

Because the pharisees added to the law their own traditions, they were practicing legalism..but on a much smaller scale than today's professing "christians" who follow the traditions of man and ignore the laws of God.
#5
(11-04-2012, 06:27 PM)John 14.6 Wrote: [quote='MessianicJew' pid='83256' dateline='1352064718']
So what about Thanksgiving? Do you celebrate that?

(11-04-2012, 06:27 PM)John 14.6 Wrote: Do you not give thanksgiving...thanksgiving is not just one articificial day created by traditions of man...it is a daily event, as well as on the Seventh day Sabbath each week...you are are stuck on this yearly thing, I pity you you need a lot of prayer!

Sure, I give thanks. But I was asking if you celebrate Thanksgiving on the appointed day?
#6
MJ..Who appointed the one year a day "thanksgiving" that you follow? You really should start following the word of God, instead of following man made traditions which mean nothing to God...thanksgiving is from the heart on a continual basis, for the blessings God has given us...if you do not know this pagan rome has a real hold on you...
#7
(11-05-2012, 01:15 AM)John 14.6 Wrote: MJ..Who appointed the one year a day "thanksgiving" that you follow? You really should start following the word of God, instead of following man made traditions which mean nothing to God...thanksgiving is from the heart on a continual basis, for the blessings God has given us...if you do not know this pagan rome has a real hold on you...

It was appointed by the Christian Pilgrims, Thanksgiving was a thanks to God for provision and saving their life during the time they traveled from then Great Britain to N. America. Historically it became a National Holiday.

I'm asking a 'yes' or 'no' question. You either 'yes' keep Thanksgiving on the appointed day, or 'no' do not keep Thanksgiving on the appointed day.

Romans 14:5
One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Noah Webster a master of the Hebrew, Greek and English would also disagree with you, in fact, he even cites to the exact chapter and same verse as I do, here in his dictionary he wrote back in 1828.

1828 Dictionary: ESTEE'M, v.t. [L. estimo; Gr. to honor or esteem.]

1. To set a value on, whether high or low; to estimate; to value.

Then he forsook God who made him, and lightly esteemed the rock of his salvation. Deut.32.

They that despise me shall be lightly esteemed. 1 Sam.2.

2. To prize; to set a high value on; to regard with reverence, respect or friendship. When our minds are not biased, we always esteem the industrious, the generous, the brave, the virtuous, and the learned.

Will he esteem thy riches? Job.36.

3. To hold in opinion; to repute; to think.

One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Rom.14.

4. To compare in value; to estimate by proportion. [Little used.]

ESTEE'M, n. Estimation; opinion or judgment of merit or demerit. This man is of no worth in my esteem.

1. High value or estimation; great regard; favorable opinion, founded on supposed worth.

Both those poets lived in much esteem with good and holy men in orders.
#8
Quote:So what about Thanksgiving? Do you celebrate that?
Forgot that I'm not an American? Off course I don't celebrate Thanksgiving. It's not our tradition. Although the Americans got it partly from the Dutch Christian thanksgivingday, what nobody in Holland celebrates nowadays. Besides that American Thanksgiving has to much negative history against the Native Americans.
Jews have their own days/times to say thanks to The Almighty.
Other nations are allowed though to celebrate it the American version, even non-Americans.

-----------------

[bold]Hi John 14:6[/bold]

Quote:Because the pharisees added to the law their own traditions,
That is what Jesus and some writers of the Christian Testament did too, where is the problem according to you?

Quote:They were practicing legalism..but on a much smaller scale than today's professing "christians" who follow the traditions of man and ignore the laws of God.
Some phariseans were practising legalism maybe. In the Christian Testament they mainly asked questions, not legalism. Theology learns that you have to see it as legalism. But indeed everybody is censitive to make their own rules, nobody excluded.
#9
(11-05-2012, 12:48 PM)Yetzirah231 Wrote:
Quote:So what about Thanksgiving? Do you celebrate that?
Forgot that I'm not an American? Off course I don't celebrate Thanksgiving. It's not our tradition. Although the Americans got it partly from the Dutch Christian thanksgivingday, what nobody in Holland celebrates nowadays. Besides that American Thanksgiving has to much negative history against the Native Americans.
Jews have their own days/times to say thanks to The Almighty.
Other nations are allowed though to celebrate it the American version, even non-Americans.

Hmm. Are you and John 14.6 the same person? Because I was actually asking that person this question.

Second, Thanksgiving does not have too much negativity. The Christian Pilgrims never went to war with the Native Americans, Native v. European wars happened much later than the very first Thanksgiving upon Plymouth Rock.
#10
MJ..who cares about all that man made traditions mumbo jumbo you are spouting..it is all negative to God's word..you should become more conversant with God's Holy word, and Commandments..that is all that matters..I do not care what the early Americans celebrated....the word of God and His Commandments are all that matters..the rest is all dung!


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