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Levitical Marriage?
#11
I did not stop short for any reason but to highlight the verses quoted. I left the rest for you to look up, and I see that you have found the conclusion of the complaint lodged by the house of Menashe in verses 1-3. Verse 4 continues with their concern that "when the Jubilee of the Children of Israel shall be, then shall their inheritance be put unto the inheritance of the tribe whereunto they are received: so shall their inheritance be taken away from the inheritance of the tribe of our fathers." And so, to ensure no tribe was shorted when Joshua apportioned the Land, G-D commanded the daughters of Zelophehad to marry within the family (v. 6), so as to prevent the inheritance from permanently moving away from Menashe's portion (v. 7, 12).

Also, Aharon the High Priest was of the tribe of Levi, yet he married Elisheva (Ex 6:23), daughter of Amminadav, of the tribe of Judah (Num 1:7). Clearly tribes could intermarry.

According to you, if tribes can't intermarry, how do you understand the vow in Judges 21:1? Why make such a vow if this rule was already in effect from years ago?
#12
(04-06-2013, 11:47 PM)benyosef Wrote: I did not stop short for any reason but to highlight the verses quoted. I left the rest for you to look up, and I see that you have found the conclusion of the complaint lodged by the house of Menashe in verses 1-3. Verse 4 continues with their concern that "when the Jubilee of the Children of Israel shall be, then shall their inheritance be put unto the inheritance of the tribe whereunto they are received: so shall their inheritance be taken away from the inheritance of the tribe of our fathers." And so, to ensure no tribe was shorted when Joshua apportioned the Land, G-D commanded the daughters of Zelophehad to marry within the family (v. 6), so as to prevent the inheritance from permanently moving away from Menashe's portion (v. 7, 12).

Also, Aharon the High Priest was of the tribe of Levi, yet he married Elisheva (Ex 6:23), daughter of Amminadav, of the tribe of Judah (Num 1:7). Clearly tribes could intermarry.

According to you, if tribes can't intermarry, how do you understand the vow in Judges 21:1? Why make such a vow if this rule was already in effect from years ago?

Juges 21:1 is a vow not to tribally intermarry. And Moses married an Ethiopian, and Aaron married a daughter of Judah, and Boaz married a Moabite.

The inheritance moved from tribe to tribe if you marry someone else from another tribe. It doesn't change because Aaron did it, because Moses did it nor because Boaz did it. Moses forbad tribal intermarriage, not just at the time of Joshua.

Numbers 36:8
And every daughter, that possesses an inheritance in any tribe of the children of Israel, shall be wife to one of the family of the tribe of her father, that the children of Israel may enjoy every man the inheritance of his fathers.

Sin is sin: They did it back then, even more of a reason you need Jesus.

Isaiah 63:17
O Lord, why have you made us to err from your ways, and hardened our heart from your fear? Return for your servants' sake, the tribes of your inheritance.

Ezekiel 48:29
This is the land which you shall divide by lot to the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, said the Lord God.
#13
(04-07-2013, 04:41 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(04-06-2013, 11:47 PM)benyosef Wrote: I did not stop short for any reason but to highlight the verses quoted. I left the rest for you to look up, and I see that you have found the conclusion of the complaint lodged by the house of Menashe in verses 1-3. Verse 4 continues with their concern that "when the Jubilee of the Children of Israel shall be, then shall their inheritance be put unto the inheritance of the tribe whereunto they are received: so shall their inheritance be taken away from the inheritance of the tribe of our fathers." And so, to ensure no tribe was shorted when Joshua apportioned the Land, G-D commanded the daughters of Zelophehad to marry within the family (v. 6), so as to prevent the inheritance from permanently moving away from Menashe's portion (v. 7, 12).

Also, Aharon the High Priest was of the tribe of Levi, yet he married Elisheva (Ex 6:23), daughter of Amminadav, of the tribe of Judah (Num 1:7). Clearly tribes could intermarry.

According to you, if tribes can't intermarry, how do you understand the vow in Judges 21:1? Why make such a vow if this rule was already in effect from years ago?

Juges 21:1 is a vow not to tribally intermarry. And Moses married an Ethiopian, and Aaron married a daughter of Judah, and Boaz married a Moabite.

The inheritance moved from tribe to tribe if you marry someone else from another tribe. It doesn't change because Aaron did it, because Moses did it nor because Boaz did it. Moses forbad tribal intermarriage, not just at the time of Joshua.

Numbers 36:8
And every daughter, that possesses an inheritance in any tribe of the children of Israel, shall be wife to one of the family of the tribe of her father, that the children of Israel may enjoy every man the inheritance of his fathers.

Sin is sin: They did it back then, even more of a reason you need Jesus.

Isaiah 63:17
O Lord, why have you made us to err from your ways, and hardened our heart from your fear? Return for your servants' sake, the tribes of your inheritance.

Ezekiel 48:29
This is the land which you shall divide by lot to the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, said the Lord God.
Numbers 36:8 pertains ONLY to daughters who are sole inheriters of land when a male inheriter is lacking. Tribal lineage doesn't jump from tribe to tribe, and certainly not from member to member in a tribe because the all ready have tribal lineage. Numbers 27:7-11 supports my contention that only land inheritance was the question.

Both David, with Michal from Benjamin, and Aaron, with Elisheva of Judah, intermarried within tribes, without any condemnation at all from any prophets, or from Hashem. They didn't sin in this regard.
#14
(04-11-2013, 10:15 AM)Nachshon Wrote: Numbers 36:8 pertains ONLY to daughters who are sole inheriters of land when a male inheriter is lacking. Tribal lineage doesn't jump from tribe to tribe, and certainly not from member to member in a tribe because the all ready have tribal lineage. Numbers 27:7-11 supports my contention that only land inheritance was the question.

Both David, with Michal from Benjamin, and Aaron, with Elisheva of Judah, intermarried within tribes, without any condemnation at all from any prophets, or from Hashem. They didn't sin in this regard.

Numbers 36:8 says absolutely no such thing. You sound like the user Prophet who left. You just type stuff that simply is not there. Read the verses above and below, it is about marrying within a tribe.

As for tribal lineage, you're lineage is screwed up if you're intermixed.

You ignore Moses, Moses married a Shulamite, he wasn't punished. That doesn't make it OK. If it were OK, then Aaron would have said absolutely nothing. But he did. He knew the law and questioned Moses about Marrying a Shulamite.

Then came the law of tribal intermarriage. Which inheritance does jump tribe to tribe.

You are trying to claim that you need a Israelite Father to have a Tribe and Israelite Mother to be Israelite. But if you just have a Israelite father you have a tribe but you're not Israelite. That is an oxymoron.
#15
Numbers 36:3 And if they be married to any of the sons of the other tribes of the children of Israel, then shall their inheritance be taken from the inheritance of our fathers, and shall be put to the inheritance of the tribe where to they are received: so shall it be taken from the lot of our inheritance.

Right above, if they are married to any of the sons of the 'other tribes'...then Moses below says to marry within your tribe. That shows if you don't belong to your tribe the inheritance will jump from tribe to tribe. Because your lineage is screwed up.
#16
(04-14-2013, 02:06 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: Numbers 36:3 And if they be married to any of the sons of the other tribes of the children of Israel, then shall their inheritance be taken from the inheritance of our fathers, and shall be put to the inheritance of the tribe where to they are received: so shall it be taken from the lot of our inheritance.

Right above, if they are married to any of the sons of the 'other tribes'...then Moses below says to marry within your tribe. That shows if you don't belong to your tribe the inheritance will jump from tribe to tribe. Because your lineage is screwed up.
Tribal lineage doesn't jump tribe to tribe, only land inheritance when a daughter who is sole heir to land posession marries outside her clan.

Ezra 9:12 clears things up. If you have a non-Israelite parent, no land posession or tribal lineage.
#17
(04-14-2013, 04:18 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Tribal lineage doesn't jump tribe to tribe, only land inheritance when a daughter who is sole heir to land posession marries outside her clan.

Inheritance does, which is why Moses commanded to marry within your tribe.

(04-14-2013, 04:18 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Ezra 9:12 clears things up. If you have a non-Israelite parent, no land posession or tribal lineage.

So then how much of Israel today is truly Israel? Just one non-Israelite parent would break that law at any place in your lineage.
#18
(04-15-2013, 01:22 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(04-14-2013, 04:18 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Tribal lineage doesn't jump tribe to tribe, only land inheritance when a daughter who is sole heir to land posession marries outside her clan.
Inheritance does, which is why Moses commanded to marry within your tribe.
Only for daughters who are sole inheritors, Numbers 27:7-11.


(04-15-2013, 01:22 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(04-14-2013, 04:18 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Ezra 9:12 clears things up. If you have a non-Israelite parent, no land posession or tribal lineage.
So then how much of Israel today is truly Israel? Just one non-Israelite parent would break that law at any place in your lineage.
Good point, but it doesn't change the fact that there are people who think they are Jews/Israelites today, and they're not. And, it is a major issue in Israel due to intermarriage. Just like what happened in Ezra's time.
#19
(04-16-2013, 06:34 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Only for daughters who are sole inheritors, Numbers 27:7-11.

Well of course, they wouldn't be shared inheritors so what is your point? The whole point was tribal intermarriage. It is prohibited. Which doesn't mess up both tribal lineage and doesn't mess up inheritance.

(04-14-2013, 04:18 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Good point, but it doesn't change the fact that there are people who think they are Jews/Israelites today, and they're not. And, it is a major issue in Israel due to intermarriage. Just like what happened in Ezra's time.

I agree here.

Can you tell your tribe from both sides of your family tree?
#20
(04-17-2013, 04:33 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(04-16-2013, 06:34 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Only for daughters who are sole inheritors, Numbers 27:7-11.
Well of course, they wouldn't be shared inheritors so what is your point? The whole point was tribal intermarriage. It is prohibited. Which doesn't mess up both tribal lineage and doesn't mess up inheritance.
No, the whole point this was a special case, and new laws where established for land inheritance for daughters who were sole inheritors. Please explain how tribal lineage can pass to family members who already have tribal lineage. What is there to pass?

(04-17-2013, 04:33 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(04-14-2013, 04:18 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Good point, but it doesn't change the fact that there are people who think they are Jews/Israelites today, and they're not. And, it is a major issue in Israel due to intermarriage. Just like what happened in Ezra's time.
I agree here.

Can you tell your tribe from both sides of your family tree?
Can you?


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