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Because they keep the easy laws...
#21
(06-29-2013, 11:15 PM)Nachshon Wrote: So, why didn't your High Priest Messiah get married and have children as required in the law, Gen 1:28; Gen 9:1? Why didn't he fulfill the law of Kings in Deut 17:14-20? Deut 17:19 requires a King to abide by all of the laws, even sacrifices. When Yeshua reigns, will he be making sacrifices as required by the law and teaching others to do the same? Since Yeshua would be making sacrifices, who is his High Priest?

It is written, you shall keep all statutes and all commandments to be perfect.

These should be easy to keep.

Gen 1:28 You believe dying a virgin is a sin?
Gen 9:1 This was to Noah not all mankind just as Gen 1:28 was to Adam and his wife not a law to all mankind.

Deut 17:14-20 Show me when the Israelite set Christ as a King over them? Only the minority believed, in fact they picked Barabbas to be let go and they crucified Jesus instead. They never chose Christ as their King like they were suppose to.

I would think when Christ reigns he will fulfill all in Deuteronomy, seeing as in the New Testament, not one jot or tittle of the law will pass away. It is written that our covering is Christ and the Father is the covering of Christ. Christ is the High Priest, who sanctifies and has power to atone and forgive men of their sins before Elohim.
#22
(07-01-2013, 01:37 PM)dantech Wrote: How does that turn into : One single sin is enough to stop following all the other laws.

One single sin isn't enough to stop following the laws. You don't stop following laws. Most Jews are not guilty of just one sin either. Have you ever lusted after a woman or man? How is your thought life? Ever hate someone? Christ said that is as bad as murder. Are you just obedient because all you care about is obedience and you're not sincere? I can be obedient and do the speed limit, it doesn't mean I'm sincere, it could just mean I don't want a ticket. Do you really want to look at pornography? Etc. The whole point of Christ is that no man is wholehearted nor obedient before Elohim. The very fact that two temples and an entire nation of men were dispersed for sin and disobedience shows that every man needs a High Priest in their life to forgive them of their sins supernaturally throughout all generations until Kingdom come.

(07-01-2013, 01:37 PM)dantech Wrote: You keep going on and on about how we don't follow specific laws. Well I have news for you, you follow less laws than we do.

And you can tell this how? Just the other day I was reading an article on Chabad, entitled http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questio...habitwhich showed a Jew on the computer struggling with internet pornography. Now, how is that more Holy than Christians many of whom never even look at the stuff? You think internet **** can be forgiven, and Jew will still enter the life to come? Or if a Jew and a Christian both struggle, the Jew looks to himself to try to overcome before Elohim, while the Christian prays in Jesus name to forgive them of their sins and to help them overcome sin before Elohim through a heart change, and it is supernatural.


(07-01-2013, 01:37 PM)dantech Wrote: The difference is you are completely okay with not following any laws because somehow, you got to the conclusion that by having faith in Jesus, you are cleansed of all sin...

Really? Where did I ever say an of this?
#23
(07-01-2013, 01:37 PM)dantech Wrote: Let's use chronological logic, shall we? We both believe in the Torah. You believe in the NT as well. Obviously the NT came after the Torah. Please make a convincing case, using nothing but quotes from the Torah, that some day we will be allowed to no longer do the Sabbath. Or that someday there will be a new set of laws that will abolish the old ones. Or that a human being can be equal to God. Or that a human being will have the right to contradict Hashem...

Sure, exchange the Kippah for some Greek thought process called logic. The New Testament doesn't say you no longer keep the Sabbath anyway. As for a new covenant: Jeremiah 31:31-33. Show me in the Tanakh where human being is ever written. Ever read where it is written Elohim said we are angelic creatures? As for contradict Hashem, that is your assertion that the NT contradicts, it is out of your own bias. That question is rigged from the get go.

(06-26-2013, 09:09 AM)dantech Wrote: Why? It doesn't add up.
You said he fulfilled the commandments. He fulfilled the Sabbath, and therefore we no longer have to observe it. He fulfilled the forbidding of eating pork, and therefore we can eat it. Did he not fulfill all the Mitzvot? If he did, and if he fulfilled not eating pork and now allowing us to eat it as not being a sin, then what's the difference with killing. Why can't I kill?

I never said much of anything of what you accuse me of. The only thing I will defend is eating pork. And that is because Apostle Paul explained that we are in an age of grace and mercy. If you say you are obedient to Torah, then the belief is that you have to do it all. Do you mark the three sides of your doorposts with blood on Passover? Do you cook the lamb with no blemish and all the entrails and eat it in a hurry with staff in your hand?
#24
(07-02-2013, 06:29 AM)Nachshon Wrote: For someone who uses the username MessianicJew, why do you always disassociate yourself with the Israelites/Jews from the past when you're arguing that you're an Israelite?

Please give an example about how I disassociate myself with Israelite from the past?

(07-02-2013, 06:29 AM)Nachshon Wrote: Wouldn't your family be part of this past history too?

Of course they would be.

(07-02-2013, 06:29 AM)Nachshon Wrote: What does Hebrews say about Christians who continue to sin?

The word continue is a little too broad. It can mean to exist over a prolonged period of time. Lets use the word condone, about their sin. Two people, one who struggles with sin for 15 years and another who condones it over 15 years, I believe what Hebrews says about one who condones sin is that they can eventually not have salvation. Are there are people who do this and still say they're Christian.

(07-02-2013, 06:29 AM)Nachshon Wrote: If they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame."{Hebrews 6:6}

Fall away, means to deny the Lord who bought you and to turn from the Holy commandment given to us. I can find you loads of "former" Christians on youtube who make videos mocking the very faith they claimed to have. No Chrisitan on this board is like that.
#25
(07-02-2013, 06:29 AM)Nachshon Wrote: For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins."{Hebrews 10:26}

Do you sin willfully? No sincere Christian does either and says I'm forgiven, "It is Saturday night and I'm off to an orgy, because hey, I'm forgiven." They've missed the point entirely.

(07-02-2013, 06:29 AM)Nachshon Wrote: It is a double standard by which many Christians in this forum argue when they themselves are responsible for the continual death of their messiah, and are no longer with a sacrifice for sins. What do you do now? It looks like you ran out of cake.

How so? Perhaps only for an insincere unrepentant person who claims Christianity.

What do I do now? I don't run out of cake as long as I'm sincere, I always have hope, I never sin so grace will abound. Sin is always struggle, but Christ keeps me standing. It has happened to me plenty of times. The soul is willing but the flesh is weak. Christ said once when asked, if someone sins 7 times and 7 times asks to forgive them would he forgive them. Christs reply: I would forgive them 70 times 7. Matthew 18:21-22 That is over and beyond to me.

We get our cake and eat it too. Not so in Judaism.
#26
(07-09-2013, 03:08 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(07-02-2013, 06:29 AM)Nachshon Wrote: For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins."{Hebrews 10:26}
Do you sin willfully? No sincere Christian does either and says I'm forgiven, "It is Saturday night and I'm off to an orgy, because hey, I'm forgiven." They've missed the point entirely.
The point is if you still sin, then you have problems with a sacrifice remaining for you. Isn't that what the NT says?

(07-09-2013, 03:08 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(07-02-2013, 06:29 AM)Nachshon Wrote: It is a double standard by which many Christians in this forum argue when they themselves are responsible for the continual death of their messiah, and are no longer with a sacrifice for sins. What do you do now? It looks like you ran out of cake.
How so? Perhaps only for an insincere unrepentant person who claims Christianity.

What do I do now? I don't run out of cake as long as I'm sincere, I always have hope, I never sin so grace will abound. Sin is always struggle, but Christ keeps me standing. It has happened to me plenty of times. The soul is willing but the flesh is weak. Christ said once when asked, if someone sins 7 times and 7 times asks to forgive them would he forgive them. Christs reply: I would forgive them 70 times 7. Matthew 18:21-22 That is over and beyond to me.

We get our cake and eat it too. Not so in Judaism.
Not according to the NT in Hebrews. It looks like you have problems. G-d has provided forgiveness and the mode of conduct is Torah. Judaism doesn't have a problem.
#27
(07-09-2013, 02:49 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: The whole point of Christ is that no man is wholehearted nor obedient before Elohim. The very fact that two temples and an entire nation of men were dispersed for sin and disobedience shows that every man needs a High Priest in their life to forgive them of their sins supernaturally throughout all generations until Kingdom come.
Okay, then let me ask you this.
You believe God is all knowing?
You believe God created mankind?
You believe God is perfect in every way?

If you answered yes to all three, then please explain to me how in your mind an all knowing, perfect in every way, creator of the world and everything else God can give us a law that we cannot follow, ever!

According to you, it has always been impossible to follow all the laws perfectly. And so Jesus said that we cant be wholehearted. But God asked us to love him wholeheartedly. So explain this to me please. Explain to me, and everyone else, how a government will declare a law that is impossible to abide to. Example : Government declares that it no longer is within our rights to breath air. This is exactly what you are saying.
I'm excited to read your reply, which will no doubt be about having faith in Jesus, and everything becomes acceptable, and no longer needs to be logical.


Quote:And you can tell this how? Just the other day I was reading an article on Chabad, entitled http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questio...habitwhich showed a Jew on the computer struggling with internet pornography. Now, how is that more Holy than Christians many of whom never even look at the stuff? You think internet **** can be forgiven, and Jew will still enter the life to come? Or if a Jew and a Christian both struggle, the Jew looks to himself to try to overcome before Elohim, while the Christian prays in Jesus name to forgive them of their sins and to help them overcome sin before Elohim through a heart change, and it is supernatural.
You don't see how a Rabbi writing to Jews around the world to try and help them with their weaknesses is holier than a Christian who, with no shame, eats pork? Which is clearly forbidden.


Quote:Really? Where did I ever say an of this?
Almost every paragraph you write contains one of these sentences.. "Jesus fulfilled the law so we don't have to", "Having faith in Jesus will save us", "Jesus said we can't follow the law, so we have faith in him and that's all that matters" = in other words, all these say: "Screw the Torah! I'll eat pork because Jesus will save me! I can also light a huge bonfire on Saturday when I'm at the cottage with my friends, because Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath for me!"

Only problem with everything you say and have said up until this point, is that God didn't give the Torah to Jesus only. He gave it to ALL Jews or Israelites or whatever you want to call them, and they all have to abide to it.
#28
What gets lost in all this back-and-forth is that Jesus was actually asked a similar question. In the 19th chapter of the first gospel (v. 16-21) a man came to J and asked "what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" After explaining to this man that he is the supreme god and creator of the world, J answers that if he accepts him as the messiah and believes in him, he will have eternal life.

Just kidding. After showing a clear distinction between himself and G-D, J tells this man, "if you will enter into life, keep the commandments."

The man replies, "All these things have I kept from my youth up. What do I lack?"

And Jesus said, "That is impossible. No one can keep the commandments, except me. Believe in me or burn in Hell."

Just kidding. Instead, Jesus invents a command that he must give all his possessions to the poor, and that he should also follow J (presumably because he's such a great teacher).

In this exchange, J had two opportunities to relate the Christian view on the commandments. Yet, when specifically asked, he maintained the Jewish outlook that everyone can keep the Torah commandments if only they wish to.

Nowadays, J's followers present an interesting situation: not only do they not keep the commandments like their master recommends in no uncertain terms in verse 17, but they don't even keep the commandment he invented himself in verse 21 to give all one's possessions to the poor.

I guess I'm just noting the irony of the situation. Christians accuse Jews of not following the laws which are presently impossible to keep while ignoring and ridiculing the laws we do, all the while telling us to accept and follow their master (to whom they selectively listen) and his laws (which they conveniently forget or explain away).
#29
(07-11-2013, 09:54 AM)Nachshon Wrote: The point is if you still sin, then you have problems with a sacrifice remaining for you. Isn't that what the NT says?

No, Matthew 18:21-22

(07-11-2013, 09:54 AM)Nachshon Wrote: Not according to the NT in Hebrews. It looks like you have problems. G-d has provided forgiveness and the mode of conduct is Torah. Judaism doesn't have a problem.

Willful sin is condoning sin. Hebrews talks about the willful sinner. By the way Hebrews was written by Apostle Paul.

Is your passover lamb without blemish, a male of the first year?
Do you keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month?
Do you take the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein you shall eat it?
Do you roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the internal organs?
Do you let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remains of it until the morning do you burn with fire?
Do you eat the lamb with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and in haste?

No? It looks like you have problems. That is just one part of the 'mode of conduct'
#30
(07-11-2013, 10:58 AM)dantech Wrote: If you answered yes to all three, then please explain to me how in your mind an all knowing, perfect in every way, creator of the world and everything else God can give us a law that we cannot follow, ever!

According to you, it has always been impossible to follow all the laws perfectly. And so Jesus said that we cant be wholehearted. But God asked us to love him wholeheartedly. So explain this to me please. Explain to me, and everyone else, how a government will declare a law that is impossible to abide to. Example : Government declares that it no longer is within our rights to breath air. This is exactly what you are saying.
I'm excited to read your reply, which will no doubt be about having faith in Jesus, and everything becomes acceptable, and no longer needs to be logical.

"Can't" is the wrong word. When held to the standard of the Torah, you fail to keep all of them.

Is your passover lamb without blemish, a male of the first year?
Do you keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month?
Do you take the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein you shall eat it?
Do you roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the internal organs?
Do you let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remains of it until the morning do you burn with fire?
Do you eat the lamb with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and in haste?

And this day shall be to you for a memorial; and you shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; you shall keep it a feast by an ordinance forever.


(07-11-2013, 10:58 AM)dantech Wrote: You don't see how a Rabbi writing to Jews around the world to try and help them with their weaknesses is holier than a Christian who, with no shame, eats pork? Which is clearly forbidden.

Weaknesses? Where is that written? Eating pork with no shame, that isn't written in the New Testament, whatever you eat must be eaten with faith. That is written in the New Testament.

As for Pork obviously for the Christian there is much grace with Christ Romans ch. 14. Also, not every Christian eats pork.


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