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is this true ? any proves ?, when the Jews leave the country - the economy falls!
#11
Quote:Yetzirah, it is kind of ironic that you are doing your best to prove that a prophecy from the Torah has no practical consequences. The U.S. did not receive their blessing until AfTER WW II. During WW II they were still living their curse.
First of all I don't proof anything. I just say, that it's hard to proof that prosperity is always because another country is so good to Jews. Although I think your research what you explain in the end of your post sounds great, the overview with so many countries during centuries.
The U.S. did receive rights over many British colonies, patentrights during WW-II, and indeed they mainly could benefit from it after the war. It might have to do with chosing to fight against the Germans, but at the other hand they made a lot of practical choises. Also Germany (still) did great after the war, everything was suddenly forgiven by God?
I claim we are just not shure, I don't try to proof anything because we have now no prophets.

Indeed The Almighty does what is appropiate, no doubt about that.
Czechoslovakia did ship weaponry etc. partly because Robert Maxwell and a few people in the government did not trust Russia nor the U.S. between 1945-1947 in their involvements in politics locally. The U.S. was still sponsoring Tiso who was a Nazi after WW-II. Indeed Slovakia had mainly a lot of sins during WW-II but so did the U.S.
ONLY The Almighty can judge it, what to do with it. The Czechs thought at the other hand that it was good to support the moderate socialist friends like Yugoslavia and Israel. It was ideolistically, not for the money.
I'm not shure what the Czechoslovakian people thought, partly because the Leage of Nations and the to form U.N. left Czechoslovakia sort of alone. Partly because of shame that nobody kept their promisses in 1938 and 39. Then it took almost 3 years to stabalize all kind of different groups, re-unite the 2 states while the Churches and U.S. and other countries tried to take their influence, and the Czechoslovakians mainly kicked all the Germans out.

The experiment from the early 20's that Jews could have their own citizenship, not having to choose to be Czech nor German or Slovak or Hongarian, was one of the things that ''Hitler'' and others were against with. In that sence did the Czechoslovakian Republic regocnize the British Mandate for the Jews as was decided in the 1920's even by giving them their own ''citizenship''.
Jan Masaryk was very Zionist and was the first head of state who visited British Palestine in 1927, to see ''the Jewish homeland''.
The Czech Republic did vote in the U.N. Partition Plan for Palestine in November 1947 in favour of creating the Israeli state. So I'm not shure what you mean by:
Quote:Why did Czechoslovakia not support the creation of Israel in the first place?
The Arm shipmetns started in June 1947, before the creation of the state. And on Czech soil also 1300 Jews were trained for their Israeli army etc.
In Februari 1948 Czechoslovakia became itself under Russian rule, partly by choise, mainly by a coup d'état. During this ''chaos'' where the Socialistic Republic was declared in March 1948 and the constitution was ready the 9th of May 1948, then courts could adapt to it etc. and on 9 June 1948 the country was a declared a ''people's republic''.
Jan Masaryk was found death in March 1948.
So maybe this all is why: when on the 14th of May 1948 Israel was established, the new ''Czechoslovakian Socialist Republic'' recognized it only 5 days later. They had their own governmental crisis.

I like it that you did the survey you are talking about. Curious what comes out of your theories and idea's about blessings.
Be well.

Ah and of course you had the future, the move towards socialism was partly because of the ways how the Marshallplan was represented and it's conditions to get it. Also the way the Marshallplan was financially sponsored was for a lot of countries a difficult thing to swallow.
You had Russia's problems with president Tito in Yugoslavia and of course under Russian rule a lot of moderate socialist countries could sponsor Israel less.
But after the cold war, things opened up again, and the U.S. and partly NATO needed Iran and ''their'' Alija Izetbegović to minimize Serbia, gain Oilpipeline contracts and to create Kosovo. Long story but by Western support of Iran in the Yugoslavian war of the 1990's, the West made some things more dangerous in Yugoslavia and the Middle East. It was partly the Western IMF who started to push Yugoslavia in directions in the early 1980's.
Israel and Russia amongst other said that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, and Israel never recognized Kosovo untill now as far as I know.
But Israel also depends on all kind of playing chess that countries do for their own sake. I wonder if those countries realy think about what curses or blessings it would create for Israel. Part of the wargame is just propaganda for own benefit, and not realy because of danger or in order to create ''democracy''.
#12
I did not know that Czechoslovakia supported the creation of Israel, so thank you for educating me. Consulting my encyclopedia, and the web site http://www.porges.net/JewishHistoryOfCze...i-Semitism
I see that there were a lot of anti-Jewish tendencies throughout Czechoslovakia. From the web site:
"Anti-Semitism among all the nationalities of the republic was of old standing.... in 1918 there were anti-Semitic riots in Prague and Moravia. In Slovakia, serious anti-Semitic violence continued until summer 1919. Among the Czech elements it was less noticeable, mainly because of the personal example of Thomas Masaryk and Eduard Bene, and the democratic political philosophy as expounded by them and other leaders of public opinion. However, right-wing groups ... explicitly supported anti-Semitism in their platforms.

The Party's secretary general, Rudolf Sifnskl, was a Jew, and Jews played an important role in the party apparatus. This led to an increase of the anti-Semitism which was latent especially in Slovakia. Already in 1945, a delegation of the Council of Jewish Communities led by Ernst Frischer complained to President Bene2 about anti-Jewish excesses in the Slovak towns of Precov, Bardjov, and Topolcany. The same year two Jews were killed in Cilina, and in 1946 and 1948 there were anti-Jewish riots in Bratislava. Anti-Semitism knew no party barriers, and Communists were no more immune to it than others. As soon as the anti-Jewish line became official policy in the Soviet Union, Communists in Czechoslovakia followed suit. The Sifnskl Trial of 1952 had a clearly anti-Jewish character:

Czechoslovakia was among the first countries in the world to recognize the State of Israel, ..., during its War of Independence, Israel enjoyed active and effective Czechoslovak assistance, including the supply of military equipment. The two countries exchanged diplomatic representatives. These initially promising relations rapidly deteriorated, however, when Moscow reversed her attitude to Israel. This process culminated in the expulsion of the Israel minister from Prague, Aryeh Kubovy in December 1952."

It seems to me that this is a country that cursed Jews on a widespread basis with short-lived reprieves. Even while the country was officially supporting the new state of Israel, "in 1946 and 1948 there were anti-Jewish riots in Bratislava".

Now, move ahead to 1990. Vaclav Havel became president of the Czech Republic and "Havel's new government in February 1990 reestablished diplomatic relations with lsrael, which had been broken after the Six-Day War in 1967," and "Jewish spiritual and cultural life began to blossom in the three major communities: Prague in the Czech Republic and Bratislava and Kosice in Slovakia, each of which has about 1,000 registered members." It sounds like a time for renewed blessing on Czechoslovakia, and right about 1991, the propserity graph started to climb. In Slovakia: "Soon after the “Velvet Revolution” a number of anti-Semitic incidents were recorded in Slovakia, including the desecration of cemeteries, attacks in the Slovak nationalist press..." It is hard to tell how widespread that cursing was. Every country has its radical Nazi type elements, and I can't find a similar graph for Slovakia, but from what I have read in a history book, growth there has been slower. I see a lot of confirmation for the "theory" that only those who bless Israel are blessed.
#13
All kind of long stories here. First of all indeed Czechs are a different nation than Slovaks. They just in 1918 came out of WW-I and the Austrian Hungarian empire, so they had to reastablish itself, plus they had a huge amount of German citizens living mainly in the Czech area (Sudetenland), and Slovakia later did sort of choose to be independent by becomming a seperate state supported by the Germans.
But Jewish citizenship was a quite unique step forward. Prague had a Czech state University, a German(speaking) university and a Hussite University by the re-established Hussite Church. A lot of things were new.
There were French soldiers ''protecting'' the borders, The Czechs did build mainly a defencesystem in the South against Austrian claims were they just got rid of. But wrote extensively about the new thread that they were now between Hitler and Stalin.
To stay on topic. Before Luther the Czech protestants were mainly very pro-Jewish. quite some protestants kept in a certain way Sabbath instead of sunday, some did circumcize, some kept their own kind of kosher-rules. The Czech rabbanut did made special lenient rules for Christians etc.
Luther destroyed most of the 100 year relatively calm atmosphere, and wanted to burn those Judaizing sects in the last 10 years of his life. And later the Catholics did win a lot by killing and expelling all kind of people. At the ''peace of Munster'' Czechoslovakia had to become officially Catholic again.
Although there were all kind of friendships and converts between going from Judaism to Christianity and visa-versa. Like the Kafka's who became Jewish. maybe in those days the Czech republic did gain some support?

In the modern E.U. it was choosen that some South, and most East European countries stay the low-wages countries of Europe, like Mexico is for the U.S. so I'm not shure there what influences what? Prosperity is blocked partly by colonialism.
#14
Yes, the history is long and varied, and lots of factors interplay, but cursing Israel brings a curse and blessing Israel brings a blessing. There are no exceptions seen here, just more confirmation. Both Luther and the Catholic church cursed Israel and Germany was almost wiped out in the Thirty Years War.

You noted that "Also Germany (still) did great after the war, everything was suddenly forgiven by God?"

Yes, exactly as God promised in Jeremiah 18:7-8. From what I have read, there was a very great repentance among the Germans of their anti-Jewish Nazi period when they saw their country destroyed and divided.
#15
(02-28-2013, 07:03 PM)ThomasDGW Wrote: Yes, the history is long and varied, and lots of factors interplay, but cursing Israel brings a curse and blessing Israel brings a blessing. There are no exceptions seen here, just more confirmation. Both Luther and the Catholic church cursed Israel and Germany was almost wiped out in the Thirty Years War.

You noted that "Also Germany (still) did great after the war, everything was suddenly forgiven by God?"

Yes, exactly as God promised in Jeremiah 18:7-8. From what I have read, there was a very great repentance among the Germans of their anti-Jewish Nazi period when they saw their country destroyed and divided.
I'm not so shure about the repentence. A lot of Nazi's did not repent. And those Germans who were against the regime did not realy had to repent for everything.
Then there was also the Marshallplan to cover up the whole thing and to rebuild Germany. Maybe that was the blessing, or maybe that is just human interfearance.
And did the U.S. repent so much after WW-II towards the Jews? I guess not. They only started to ''bless'' them often in a protestant way, or also to have an extra Army base in the Middle East, and it's Standard Oil deals in the Israeli based Anglo-Iranian Oil company etc.
Who knows if it is a blessing, or it just creates extra wars what is also the prophecy.
#16
Well, Yetzirah, I grew up in the U.S. and if there had been a substantial lingering anti-Jewish feeling, I think I would have heard about it. I never heard an anti-Jewish comment until I was 17, and then I did not even know it was anti-Jewish because I never heard the slang term before. What shady dealers did in high levels was very secret. The things you have discovered were things that I and people I know would have protested were not true when I was growing up.

Germany repented of Nazism because they were embarrassed to even tell about it to school children born after the war. Of course, many Nazis stayed Nazis. However, God looks on the hearts. I don't know why you still are looking for exceptions to Numbers 24:9.
#17
But for example in Ukraine,there were also many Jews, why Ukraine is not among the richest countries of the world?
#18
(03-06-2013, 11:28 AM)mareknartowski Wrote: But for example in Ukraine,there were also many Jews, why Ukraine is not among the richest countries of the world?

The blessing comes from blessing Jews. You have to check on how Jews are blessed in the Ukraine, not just how many happen to be living there. Do gentiles in the Ukraine welcome Jews into their cities? Are they happy when a Jew has a prosperous business in their town? Is the Ukraine a supporter of letting Jews live in Israel?
#19
It looks like ''each country has the Jews which it deserves''.
But still , its interesting that the majority of worlds Jews used to live in Ukraine.
And Ukraine is not as rich as England or USA.
Some people who do not like the Jews ,say ''each country has as many Jews it deserves''
This is a real question , why very rich in resources the pesants country like Ukraine, could not turn Jewish presence in their land into blessings!
#20
(03-06-2013, 11:35 PM)mareknartowski Wrote: It looks like ''each country has the Jews which it deserves''.
But still , its interesting that the majority of worlds Jews used to live in Ukraine.
And Ukraine is not as rich as England or USA.
Some people who do not like the Jews ,say ''each country has as many Jews it deserves''
This is a real question , why very rich in resources the pesants country like Ukraine, could not turn Jewish presence in their land into blessings!

I would say it is because they say things like that, as if the presence of Jews in the country is a curse. That statement itself is a curse on the Jews and guarantees a lack of blessing in the country.


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