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is this true ? any proves ?, when the Jews leave the country - the economy falls!
The Soviet system wouldn't survive without the Jews even a year.
But it survived 70 years and even had its atchievements - humanitarian traditions, internationalism, atchievements in science and education.
But since the collapse of the system , some countries even after more than 20 years of independence did not reach the level of prosperity they had under the Soviet rule.
And it seems that when Jews do not integrate , then they leave like a country in the country.
The point is - they must integrate and together work on prosperity of the country where they live.

Jews presence looks more prefferable under socialism than under ollegarchs capitalism :-)
(02-28-2013, 07:03 PM)ThomasDGW Wrote: You noted that "Also Germany (still) did great after the war, everything was suddenly forgiven by God?"


Germany and Europe in general have been persecuting Jews for thousands of years.

The most horrible part of that was the holocaust.

"I, Y-H-W-H your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"
Ex 20:5

We see that within four generations of the holocaust, Europe, as it has existed for thousands of years, will have been wiped away, replaced by an Arabic caliphate.

For the finer details, look here: HERE

The fact that where the Jews goes, there goes the money and the good economy, is something that has been noticed by others before.

The founder of the car factories, Henry Ford, a terrible anti-semite, wrote a Jew hating book, called "The International Jew".

In that book he wrote the following:

"There is a curious fact to be noted in connection with the persecution and consequent wanderings of the Jews about Europe and that is: wherever they wandered, the center of business seemed to go with them. When the Jews were free in Spain, there was the world's gold center. When Spain drove out the Jews, Spain lost financial leadership and has never regained it. Students of the economic history of Europe have always been puzzled to discover why the center of trade should have shifted from Spain, Portugal and Italy, up to the northern countries of Holland, Germany, and England. They have sought for the cause in many things, but none has proved completely explanatory. When, however, it is known that the change was coincident with the expulsion of the Jews from the South and their flight to the North, when it is known that upon the Jews' arrival the northern countries began a commercial life which has flourished until our day, the explanation does not seem difficult. Time and again it has proved to be the fact that when the Jews were forced to move, the center of the world's precious metals moved with them."

This can be found here, page 16:

"Y-H-W-H had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.
2 “I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;

and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”

Gen 12

So yes, it is a fact, and the proofs are there.

(03-06-2013, 11:28 AM)mareknartowski Wrote: But for example in Ukraine,there were also many Jews, why Ukraine is not among the richest countries of the world?


Ukraine murdered and discriminated its Jews in a horrible way, so the Ukraine got cursed:

America is good for the Jews, so America is on top of the world.
(02-22-2013, 01:25 AM)mareknartowski Wrote: Greetings to all!
Please, for me the facts and arguments of this theory is very important as I discuss this theme with the people who have a lot of arguments, but totally in the opposite direction!
Thank you for the answers!

I believe when the U.S. turned their back on Israel in the Bush era, forcing the Gaza resettlement, the economy of the U.S. took a major blow, and has continued on with the new criminal Obama administration. On that same week when Israel's refugees from Gaza lost their homes Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans leaving American refugees for the first time in America's history.

I believe it is much more than just economic collapse, but every time the U.S. mettles with Israel, a natural disaster happens as well. This last month is a prime example. Since Kerry has interfered with Israel seeking the division of Israel, the U'S. suffered the coldest temperatures in a century, and heavy snow, not to mention the blizzard brewing outside my home, with estimates of snow to be 30 inches.

Zechariah 12:12 The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: 2 “Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem.
3 And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.

Certainly we see the perfect storm brewing , not just in the middle east but the world is turning against Israel. Only believing in the G-D of Israel can we understand true righteousness and favor. Though you and I have indifference on theology, both our hearts I believe stand for Israel undivided. I support you as well to believe how Hashem leads you to believe. He will never fail a heart after Him.
Have to run!
Well, Eliyahu, finally here is a subject on which we both agree! Henry Ford provides a good example himself of the principle of cursing and blessing. After his anti-Jewishness was expressed, his company went down a slide into bankruptcy, and he died in a cold candle-lit room as his personal hydroelectric plant became inoperable due to a flood. It is amazing that he saw the blessing of the Jews in his research, yet missed the point by thinking that it was due to some kind of foul conniving. His grandson, Henry Ford II, rejected his grandfather's anti-Jewishness and made Ford such a great company that everyone forgot it used to be bankrupt.

mareknartowski, you need to do examine those counter claims more closely. They probably are making Henry Ford's blunder.

Azriel is right on this. I see in the news that Israel's government is about to foolishly accept Kerry's disastrous plan. If Jews get expelled from Israel's land, the U.S. is going to experience another recompense.
Did you ever heard about Ukrainian holocaust?
More than 7 million people (third of whome are children ) were brutally and systematically starved to death, withing a short period of time.
I can say that communists did it , but look at their nationality.
Just dial on google and you can read and see it.
People just recently started to know about it.
This monstrocities against Ukrainian people can not be justified if there is no God.
But if there is God , it can not be justified much more.
Just read about Ukrainian famine, before you talk about curses-and-blessings.

And I do not see any blessings either in the modern time at this capitalism system.
Its a worst type of ollegarchs capitalism ( I wouldn't even call it capitalism in a classical meaning )
and again , among business elite - no ethnic Ukrainians, but absolute majority of those who suppose to bring blessings to the country where they abide.

So , it looks - every country has the Jews it deserves ?
May be I generelize , yes.
you can say its a problem of systems not a ethnic groups. Ok
but I am honestly searching the answer for my question widely and some sources you gave me , thanks.

We have to consider the contexts of events.
From the period of slave trades, Kozachs rebellions, Bolsheviks and communists terrors.
Was it not holy duty to fight for your land ?
to defend the works of your calous pesants hands?
to protect it against godless bolsheviks or communists who want to take you country from you?
I think the roots should be searched more deeply and it has more deep reasons.
Both guilts can be found.
The once can be guilty in underestimating the abilities and potential of the Jews, but the others can be found guilty in exploitations and aggressive nature.

By the way, when I was in Holland , I visited in Amsterdam Messianic Jews Church , I was surprised, it was very big Church. I met very nice Godly people there. I am sure these people are Blessings!
I think that repented Jew who is inspired by Holy Spirit its a Blessing and gift for the country where he lives.
What do You think ?
May be indeed , the roots that a lot of things in the history went upside down is because of Godlessness and rejecting the Saviour ?

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