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is this true ? any proves ?, when the Jews leave the country - the economy falls!
#1
Greetings to all!
Please, for me the facts and arguments of this theory is very important as I discuss this theme with the people who have a lot of arguments, but totally in the opposite direction!
Thank you for the answers!
#2
(02-22-2013, 01:25 AM)mareknartowski Wrote: Greetings to all!
Please, for me the facts and arguments of this theory is very important as I discuss this theme with the people who have a lot of arguments, but totally in the opposite direction!
Thank you for the answers!

It might be true for Ererz Israel. For it is HIS country, and He gave it to Jews, if we did good we were blessed, and the country will give it's fruits, rain etc. All kind of prommisses there.
Economy is a Western termonology. Depends on what you import vs. export is the main issue nowadays for most Western currencies (that's why the crisis is mainly there).
Saudi Arabia is and some other Arab coutries are well off, since the Jews left. So the statement is not in general true.
Maybe the dogma came from Europe, when the Jews left often some businesses, banks and knowledge left the country. At the other hand, Jews were sometimes kicked out, because Kings etc. had huge debts with Jews, if you just kick them out, your debt is also gone in the old days.
In the Middle East or Algeria etc. also a lot of culture and investments in countries stopped, hugely because Arabs and other tribes had all kind of local customs. About 20 years ago, the Dutch government gave the Jordanians satelitemaps where there is just close under the ground: groundwater. 10 years ago the Dutch government asked what they did with it. They said: nothing, because the fields could be in a few years be owned by another family or tribe, and we don't have idea's or rules how to implement this in the long run, with ownershiprules etc.
Gaza is religiously not Israel (they never took care of the Shmitayear there), so yes we left a part that is not our country, and there is less work, but the economy is o.k. because they get so much international aid. And besides that also water and electricity from Israel etc.
#3
According to Numbers 24:9, the way any people treat Jews is the way they will be treated. A study of history confirms this. Any country or area that welcomes Jews gets big blessings. Any country or area that kicks them out gets a curse, and it is not just from the Jew's bank. It can seem to be form other factors, but the blessing or curse always comes. It also applies to individuals, but in the case of individuals, who will face Judgement Day, the judgement might not always be immediate.

That is the principle. For proof, a statistical study of history will provide that to anyone who is open minded. For example, cursing the Jews was a big reason why the U.S. went into the Great Depression, and saving the remaining Jews from the holocaust was why the U.S. became prosperous after WW II. It is funny to hear how people credit WW II with the U.S. recovery, then blame the Iraq and Afghanistan wars with U.S. economic problems, without realizing the inconsistency. The current economic problems in the U.S. are due to the push to restrict the development of Israel to leave room for the "two-state solution". This was especially fierce under the Bush administration and continues with more sinister overtones in the Obama administration, though, at present, not so overtly. If the U.S. stops supporting Israel militarily, as has been done to a certain degree in the past, then the protection against attack will be lifted also.
#4
(02-22-2013, 04:00 PM)ThomasDGW Wrote: According to Numbers 24:9, the way any people treat Jews is the way they will be treated. A study of history confirms this. Any country or area that welcomes Jews gets big blessings. Any country or area that kicks them out gets a curse, and it is not just from the Jew's bank. It can seem to be form other factors, but the blessing or curse always comes. It also applies to individuals, but in the case of individuals, who will face Judgement Day, the judgement might not always be immediate.

That is the principle. For proof, a statistical study of history will provide that to anyone who is open minded. For example, cursing the Jews was a big reason why the U.S. went into the Great Depression, and saving the remaining Jews from the holocaust was why the U.S. became prosperous after WW II. It is funny to hear how people credit WW II with the U.S. recovery, then blame the Iraq and Afghanistan wars with U.S. economic problems, without realizing the inconsistency. The current economic problems in the U.S. are due to the push to restrict the development of Israel to leave room for the "two-state solution". This was especially fierce under the Bush administration and continues with more sinister overtones in the Obama administration, though, at present, not so overtly. If the U.S. stops supporting Israel militarily, as has been done to a certain degree in the past, then the protection against attack will be lifted also.

Interesting statement from Numbers 24:9.Since you mentioned this interesting verse from the Bible,I did not help myself from asking.Does the ''Jews for Jesus''movement has unified Eskhatological doctrine?or you have different views as to future events?
What is your opinion about Scofield Bible Eschatology?
#5
(02-22-2013, 04:00 PM)ThomasDGW Wrote: According to Numbers 24:9, the way any people treat Jews is the way they will be treated. A study of history confirms this. Any country or area that welcomes Jews gets big blessings. Any country or area that kicks them out gets a curse, and it is not just from the Jew's bank. It can seem to be form other factors, but the blessing or curse always comes. It also applies to individuals, but in the case of individuals, who will face Judgement Day, the judgement might not always be immediate.

That is the principle. For proof, a statistical study of history will provide that to anyone who is open minded. For example, cursing the Jews was a big reason why the U.S. went into the Great Depression, and saving the remaining Jews from the holocaust was why the U.S. became prosperous after WW II. It is funny to hear how people credit WW II with the U.S. recovery, then blame the Iraq and Afghanistan wars with U.S. economic problems, without realizing the inconsistency. The current economic problems in the U.S. are due to the push to restrict the development of Israel to leave room for the "two-state solution". This was especially fierce under the Bush administration and continues with more sinister overtones in the Obama administration, though, at present, not so overtly. If the U.S. stops supporting Israel militarily, as has been done to a certain degree in the past, then the protection against attack will be lifted also.

Can you say for example that Bolshevism is the reaction of persecutions and descriminations of Jews in Russia ?
or other examples like this one?
#6
"Does the ''Jews for Jesus''movement has unified Eskhatological doctrine?"

You should look on the main page for their doctrinal statement. I am not a member of Jews For Jesus. It is ironic that there is very little participation by members of Jews For Jesus on this forum even though it is hosted by them. I, personally, reject Scofield dispensationalism and the associated eschatology.

I think that Bolshevism taking over Russia was a direct result of the persecution of the Jews under the Czar, not because it was Jewish led, even though many Jews participated in Marxism, but because of the curse coming over Russia. And, even before Bolshevism, Russia was in horrible shape from wars. There are many, many more examples.
#7
(02-25-2013, 12:00 PM)ThomasDGW Wrote: "Does the ''Jews for Jesus''movement has unified Eskhatological doctrine?"

You should look on the main page for their doctrinal statement. I am not a member of Jews For Jesus. It is ironic that there is very little participation by members of Jews For Jesus on this forum even though it is hosted by them. I, personally, reject Scofield dispensationalism and the associated eschatology.

I think that Bolshevism taking over Russia was a direct result of the persecution of the Jews under the Czar, not because it was Jewish led, even though many Jews participated in Marxism, but because of the curse coming over Russia. And, even before Bolshevism, Russia was in horrible shape from wars. There are many, many more examples.


What examples of the countries in your opinion which were dealling with the Jews in a most diplomatic and philantropic way , and in return has got material prosperity ?
We can not agree with this theory in examples of South America or Arabic countries , right ?
#8
(02-25-2013, 01:37 PM)mareknartowski Wrote: What examples of the countries in your opinion which were dealling with the Jews in a most diplomatic and philantropic way , and in return has got material prosperity ?
We can not agree with this theory in examples of South America or Arabic countries , right ?

I think South America and Arabic countries show the principle of blessing and cursing also. Take Venezuela as an example. They were viewed as up and coming, until Hugo Chavez led a wave of anti-Israel cursing. I just met a Venezuelan Christian who came to Bolivia looking for work since it is getting so bad there. Bolivia in the past received blessing as a result of taking in Jews, but then they later took in Nazi refugees and things have not gone well since. The countries that accepted Jews most openly were Argentina and Chile. Look at Arabic countries that are actively cursing Israel. They are all in the pits. Even Saudi Arabia which has been less vocally anti-Israel than some and have oil riches. They are not an example of over-all prosperity.
#9
Quote:That is the principle. For proof, a statistical study of history will provide that to anyone who is open minded. For example, cursing the Jews was a big reason why the U.S. went into the Great Depression, and saving the remaining Jews from the holocaust was why the U.S. became prosperous after WW II. It is funny to hear how people credit WW II with the U.S. recovery, then blame the Iraq and Afghanistan wars with U.S. economic problems, without realizing the inconsistency.
I can't consider these things as proof.
Let's first take Iraq (and Iran and Libya). After the 30 yearl loan by most Arab countries since 1973, the whole U.N. and it's countries knew that the financial system is going to change. Because Iraq, Iran and Ghadaffi said that they didn't want to trade Oil anymore in Dollars a new currencybalance had to be found.
Before and during WW-II, the U.S. was not that good in helping Jews, they created all kind of tradingwars and boycots in the Far East for European countries.
While England was taking 10.000's of Jews, the U.S. had quota's of a few 100's in the beginning of WW-II. England got poorer because they lost a tradingwar in order to get American support within Europe against Germany. The U.S. did profit the most from building up Germany's weaponry arcenal, Oiltransactions, getting Medical patentrights out of concentrationcamps also from the Japanese ones. And the U.S. did also import a not of Nazi-refugees. So I can't see a proof that the U.S. mainly helped Israel. Even untill 1947 the U.S. supported the priest-president of Slovakia who was a Nazi, just for the sake of being against Communism.
Partly because of the U.S. behavior in Czechoslovakia in 1945-1948 the Czechs were realy the first who helped Israel to build up it's militairy with weapondeliveries. There is no specific proof that Czechoslovakia became rich or blessed because of helping Israel.

And besides this, The Almighty might let the righteous and the unrighteous prosper. No prophets nowadays to proof actual things that are happening now.
#10
Yetzirah, it is kind of ironic that you are doing your best to prove that a prophecy from the Torah has no practical consequences. The U.S. did not receive their blessing until AfTER WW II. During WW II they were still living their curse.

There are important points to remember if you really want to check the principle of blessing and cursing. First of all, blessing and cursing will be associated with other factors that are seen by an unbeliever as the cause. For example, if a person or nation is blessed by God and thus receives abundant rain, or encounters favorable business conditions, or discovers a resource, when they prosper, the unbelievers say it was not because of God's blessing, but one of those other things that actually was a part of God's blessing.

Next, in any country, there are always some people blessing Israel while others are cursing Israel. So, do they get blessing or cursing? God evidently weighs the whole and gives the levels of blessing or cursing in the type and amount that is appropriate. For example, in Czechoslovakia, while there were these arms shipments to Israel, why did they ship those arms to Israel, to help or grudgingly to make money? What did the Czechoslovakian people think of that sale? What was the attitude in the country as a whole towards Jews? Why did Czechoslovakia not support the creation of Israel in the first place? What level of sins were committed in Czechoslovakia during the Nazi occupation. Don't miss the possibility that Czechoslovakia might have been under a grave curse, and this weapon sale lifted the curse somewhat, and allowed the country to continue instead of being completely crushed.

Finally, you note that wicked people are allowed to prosper. That is true, as Psalm 73 notes also. But remember that for people, the curse often is to come at the end (Psalm 73:17). However, nations are a different case. Nations are entities, not persons. The examples I listed here are just a few. I did a survey of history from times such as the 1300s when Poland had the world's leading university, to the hundred-year war of England and France, to England's scientific and Industrial revolution, to the loss of England's empire, down to the details of wondering why we had a bad slump in the U.S. in 1973, then after the Camp David accords of Carter, and there is a correlation that would not continue if it were just a concept of a fluke.


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