Bible Options Bible Study Software
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Permanent fulfillment of the law?
#61
(09-20-2013, 06:48 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(09-08-2013, 12:04 PM)Nachshon Wrote: You use Isaiah 11:10 to support your position for J-sus, but then when you look at Isaiah 42, which many Christians use to point to J-sus too, verses 1 (justice), 6 (righteousness), 21 (Torah), 24 (Torah), all talk about the importance of Torah, and yet you always minimize it.

The servant in Isaiah will emphasize Torah and use it as a light to the nations.

N-chshon,

You minimize Torah, you only keep that which you believe is still suppose to be kept.

Jesus is a light to many nations and has been for 2000 years and counting and Jesus did emphasis Torah, he just didn't do it from a hypocritical point of view like so many Jews do today and did then.
MJ, please show me where I say Torah should not be kept. I can show you where you say that you don't have to keep Torah.

Not having the temple available for certain commandments is much different than willfully not keeping Torah and saying someone else keeps Torah for you.
#62
(09-21-2013, 08:18 PM)Nachshon Wrote: MJ, please show me where I say Torah should not be kept. I can show you where you say that you don't have to keep Torah.

Not having the temple available for certain commandments is much different than willfully not keeping Torah and saying someone else keeps Torah for you.

NN,

You just said it again in your own post above: Not having the temple available for certain commandments

That right there, you believe that based on belief not explicitly written word. Like I said many times Hosea didn't live after Temple II and yet you apply his Prophecy to your generation. The last Prophet was Malachi. If Hoseas prophecy was applicable to your generation there wouldn't have been a Prophet after.

Yet Malachi says:
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

And you try and say it means just remember it not even keep it!

I never said Christ keeps Torah for me. He is a High Priest as written in Hebrews. Bingo. You don't have one.
#63
MessianicJew Wrote:The entire chapter doesn't speak for the entire book nor the entire law that you claim to uphold. And the rest of what you said is your opinion, it isn't written. And when you read anything similar in other places within the Torah you can find those same men who actually turn and give sacrifice. That is how I tell you don't have the proper meaning.

I have acknowledged that sacrifices were brought since pretty much the dawn of time. What I am saying is that no one in Tanach who sinned had his sin commuted with a sin-offering, and when G-D tells us to repent and return to Him, He never says to bring a sin-offering.

King David lived when sacrifices could be brought, and the Torah mentions when he sinned. What does David say about this?

“You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You do not take pleasure in burnt offerings. The offerings of G-D are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart You, G-D, will not despise” (Psalm 51:16-17).

Or when he was reprimanded by Nathan the Prophet and David replied, “I have sinned to the L-RD!” And Nathan said, “The L-RD has already forgiven your sin; you will not die” (II Samuel 12:13).

In these two places, King David tells us and shows us that sin-offerings are not nearly as effective as repentance, a theme never contradicted in the Torah.

MessianicJew Wrote:...[Jesus] said he had the power to forgive men of their sins and did so while he was alive.

Cool. So do I. Have I just fulfilled another Messianic prophecy? I think I’ve done seven so far.

MessianicJew Wrote:
benyosef Wrote:In that day (i.e. the same day the Gentiles seek this root of Jesse)
That is your opinion, that is why you had to insert i.e and add parenthesis.

If I deviated from the simple meaning of the text, please show me how. Verses 1-9 describe the eagerly anticipated descendant of Jesse and tell us about how the world will change during his reign. When verse 10 says, “In that day,” is he suddenly and without notice telling us of a different day?

MessianicJew Wrote:Rest from what wouldn't matter if you just rest like it says to do.

You still haven’t answered the question, my friend. You said that “rest” is defined in Tanach. Where? What does it mean when it says “rest?” Am I obligated to spend all Shabbos on my couch? Am I allowed to think hard, or would that not be restful? Can I walk outside? Is refraining from work the same as resting?
#64
(09-22-2013, 01:11 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: NN,

You just said it again in your own post above: Not having the temple available for certain commandments

That right there, you believe that based on belief not explicitly written word. Like I said many times Hosea didn't live after Temple II and yet you apply his Prophecy to your generation. The last Prophet was Malachi. If Hoseas prophecy was applicable to your generation there wouldn't have been a Prophet after.
Really? Then did we need another prophet after Isaiah?

(09-22-2013, 01:11 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: Yet Malachi says:
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

And you try and say it means just remember it not even keep it!
You keep saying things I never said. Stick to the point. Do men have to keep the laws of niddah, or a non-king the laws of kings, or non-levite the priestly laws? Or if someone never finds a lost property, does he have to return what he has not found? Again, there's a bid difference between someone willing and trying to fulfill the law and someone who doesn't even care or thinks he doesn't have to. The 2nd case is wilfull.

(09-22-2013, 01:11 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: I never said Christ keeps Torah for me. He is a High Priest as written in Hebrews. Bingo. You don't have one.
You've said you don't have to because JC did it for you. And Hebrews 5:7 says in the Greek that JC offered sacrifices for sin for himself and supplications only done for someone who is not perfect. Please read the thread "Yeshua and the Red Heifer". Bingo, your high priest is not perfect and will have to bring sacrifices like all princes/kings (if he is one) as specificed in Ezek 45, for himself and Israel.


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)