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The Messiah and Jerusalem's Deliverance
(08-30-2013, 06:59 PM)Bluefinger2009 Wrote: Do you think that maybe Ezekiel was written before the second temple was built and that the author used the prophecies and name of Ezekiel to forward his agenda on how the temple and priesthood should look like?
The book was written during the Babylonian exile as seen in Ezek 1:1-3. So, it was written before the 2nd temple, 2 Kings 24:15. I believe the prophet Ezekial was the only author.

(08-30-2013, 06:59 PM)Bluefinger2009 Wrote: That wouldn't be the first time something like that happened in Scripture. Take a look at Daniel 11. After verse 36, things stop falling in line with actual historical events, leading scholars to believe that someone else wrote Daniel, using his prophecies as a back for his/their agenda on encouraging the Jews to suffer with dignity and await salvation from the Greeks by God's great power.
I've never heard of the theory that there was more than one author for Daniel. But, I do agree that Hashem has used the prophets like Daniel for encouragement and reprimand of the Jewish people.
Bluefinger2009 Wrote:you're saying that the Pharisees were not excluded because they are as dust. How many Jews are there in the world exactly? And then you say that anyone who wishes can have free reign to step all over you. That doesn't sound like you are in the promises at all. That sounds more like Deut. 28:43-44 to me.

G-D tells Avraham, “I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted” (Genesis 13:16), then “Look up at the sky and count the stars…So shall your offspring be” (15:5), and later, “I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore” (22:17). How do we reconcile these? If G-D just wanted to say “numerous,” why use three different analogies?

How many Jews are there today? Estimates put us at about 14 million Jews (although this estimate includes people who identify as Jews but practice Christianity, atheism, something else, etc.). In a worldwide population of over 7.1 billion, Jews are about .00197% of the world’s population (and Torah-observant Jews are even fewer). We’ve never been more than 9.0% of the world’s population, so this covenant must not speak solely of physical numbers, especially because G-D tells the Nation, then standing at 603K military-strong, “The L-RD your G-D has increased your numbers so that today you are as numerous as the stars in the sky” (Deuteronomy 1:10).

When Jews as a whole do what is right, we are like the stars: untouchable and shining as light. When we don’t, we are like dust: trampled by all and subject to the curses in Lev 26 and Deut 28. If the rabbis are doing what is right, why do they suffer, too? Because National Israel has a singular purpose, so if the majority are slipping, all can be affected. We laymen have to work on ourselves and not rely on someone else to do our job.
Bluefinger2009 Wrote:The reason why sin offerings were ever necessary is because the Torah makes us aware of our sins. Beforehand, those sins were not counted against us because we had no awareness of sin. Then the command came and caused sin to spring to life, bring curses and death upon us. That is what the Torah does. It judges and condemns sin. But it doesn't destroy sin. And that is why sacrifice is constantly needed.

No awareness of sin prior to the Torah? In Genesis 4 G-D tells Cain that “sin lies at the opening, but you can conquer it,” and Cain later asks if his sin is too great to bear. Further, is it the Torah that brings curses and death? No, the Torah brings life and warns that neglecting it will bring bad news (Deut 11:26-28). Sin sacrifice, I would propose, was nothing but a visual aid to the repentance process. After all, Lev 26:40-45, I Kings 8, Hosea 14:1-2, II Sam 12:13, and Prov 16:6 all offer alternate methods of atonement which, unlike sin-sacrifices, have no limit to their atoning ability.

Why were sacrifices “constantly needed?” They weren’t: the only one which was constantly brought was the twice-daily lamb (Numbers 28:1-8), which has nothing to do with sin.

Bluefinger2009 Wrote:We count [Ezekiel 43’s sacrifices] in Jesus, who inaugurated a new temple (Ephesians 2), which is the Church, with His own body, calling us to be priests unto God (Revelation 1:6, 5:10, and 20:6) and a kingdom. We are the temple, Jesus is both the Prince and the High Priest. Our offerings are prayers, suffering, and deeds of steadfast love, justice, and righteousness. The point of the temple is not the Levites. The point of the temple is God among men. If you believe Joel 2 and Zechariah 13, then you must admit that God Himself pours His Spirit, the one that Ezekiel saw leaving the temple, onto all believers. Thus, the believers become the temple.

That answer does not take into account the amazing detail of this literal, physical edifice described to Ezekiel, nor does it satisfactorily explain why there are different animals brought on different days. I agree that the point of the Temple is G-D dwelling among us (Ezekiel 37:26-27), but there is no basis to say that the Temple is in actuality the body of believers.

Bluefinger2009 Wrote:
benyosef Wrote:Is this “new Jerusalem” dwelling safely now? How will we be able to tell? What about Judah: is there a “new Judah” which is now saved from its enemies?
Revelation 21 shows that New Jerusalem is in heaven. Philippians 3:20-21 sheds more light on that.

The Torah gives us clear criteria for a “before” and “after” picture of the world so we can compare what is to what will be. What you have passively demonstrated to me is a technique used by the NT authors to exchange these clear details for a spiritual, symbolic explanation so they could claim that Jesus fulfilled X or the world is now better because of Y.

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