Bible Options Bible Study Software
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Issues with the NT
#21
(08-05-2013, 09:54 PM)benyosef Wrote: “you shall keep it a feast to the L-RD throughout your generations; you shall keep it a feast by an ordinance forever” (Exodus 12:14).
“therefore shall you observe this day in your generations by an ordinance forever” (v. 17)
“you shall observe this thing for an ordinance to you and to your sons forever: And it shall come to pass…that you shall keep this service. And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean you by this service? That you shall say, It is the sacrifice of the L-RD's Passover…” (v. 24-27)

We see that the day and its accompanying feast are written as being forever, not the sacrifice. Forever means forever, and the feast—the Seder—is kept until this very day. It does not say the sacrifice is forever, because there will be times when we can’t bring it. Like now.

The lamb is the Feast. I'm asking you if you've kept what the law says which is to bring a lamb every man for his house and prepare it like you're suppose to.

(08-05-2013, 09:54 PM)benyosef Wrote: First, most sacrifices are eaten. After the specified parts are brought on the Altar, the rest is eaten by the priests, and, in many cases, the owner, too.
Second, Numbers 9:13 calls the Passover lamb an offering. In case you forgot to look it up, here it is:
“But the man that…forbeareth to keep the Passover…shall be cut off from among his people: because he brought not the offering of the L-RD in his appointed season…” (Numbers 9:13)

First off Numbers doesn't call it a sacrifice, but an offering, in fact the way they kept it is outlined specifically in Exodus. And you don't do it.
#22
(08-05-2013, 09:54 PM)benyosef Wrote: Ummmm….no. I said religion is NOT on hold, for we are still bound by the commandments which apply forever (Deuteronomy 29:29). Tanach shows how they kept Torah laws between the Temples. According to Christianity, who says we need a sacrificial system, why did they bother keeping the laws? They should have, according to you, said, “well, there’s no Temple, so let’s do whatever until it comes back.” They didn’t say this, and we don’t, either.

To reiterate what I said earlier: the lack of a Temple does not imply the relaxation of every law. Just as the laws of Shabbos only apply on Shabbos, so, too, the laws pertaining to the Temple and the services therein apply only when it is standing. King Solomon alluded to this era in his speech on the first day of the Temple (I Kings 8), when he said that when the Jews are exiled to enemy lands, they can still bring themselves close to G-D. This sentiment is echoed toward the end of Leviticus 26, when G-D says that when the Jews bring themselves back to G-D while in enemy lands, G-D will remember them.

This coming from one who tries to lump a Passover in with a sin sacrifice, a sacrifice is for sin. The Passover is sacrifice for remembrance.
Exodus 12:27
That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the Lord's passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

Sin Offerings and sin sacrifices are different from the Lords Passover.

Now you're trying to invoke the Temple, the Lord's Passover took place without a Temple.

Now what?
#23
(07-24-2013, 10:06 PM)Nachshon Wrote: I find this question from MessianicJew interesting in light of the fact that Yeshua, with the temple available, did not apply blood to the door posts on Passover either.

Luke 22:18-20; Mark 14:22-25; Matthew 26:26-29; In these NT passages, it appears that Yeshua is having a Passover seder with his disciples. He makes reference to the cup of wine to his blood, but doesn’t make reference to the blood on the door post which the Jews applied during the Exodus from Egypt. Why not make reference to the blood of the door post from the Passover lamb and his own blood? This is a perfect opportunity to connect both "bloods". I believe the reason why it wasn't done was because this was not an obligation to generations after the Exodus, otherwise, this would have been the perfect connection to his upcoming sacrifice on the cross and the fulfillment of the blood on the door posts. This agrees with current practice of Orthodox Jews around the world, and the practice of the Jews during the 2nd temple period.

The cup of wine was communion. They didn't make reference to how they exactly "prepared" the Passover either. But the law is written expressly in Exodus. So do you do it all or not?
#24
(07-21-2013, 06:54 PM)dantech Wrote: Tell me, what is considered a sin in christianity? I'm curious.
Murdering? Stealing? Premarital sex?

Where do you learn that these are indeed sins?

Yes all of those.

Romans 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
#25
(08-09-2013, 02:09 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(07-24-2013, 10:06 PM)Nachshon Wrote: I find this question from MessianicJew interesting in light of the fact that Yeshua, with the temple available, did not apply blood to the door posts on Passover either.

Luke 22:18-20; Mark 14:22-25; Matthew 26:26-29; In these NT passages, it appears that Yeshua is having a Passover seder with his disciples. He makes reference to the cup of wine to his blood, but doesn’t make reference to the blood on the door post which the Jews applied during the Exodus from Egypt. Why not make reference to the blood of the door post from the Passover lamb and his own blood? This is a perfect opportunity to connect both "bloods". I believe the reason why it wasn't done was because this was not an obligation to generations after the Exodus, otherwise, this would have been the perfect connection to his upcoming sacrifice on the cross and the fulfillment of the blood on the door posts. This agrees with current practice of Orthodox Jews around the world, and the practice of the Jews during the 2nd temple period.

The cup of wine was communion. They didn't make reference to how they exactly "prepared" the Passover either. But the law is written expressly in Exodus. So do you do it all or not?
There was no communion back then, and to add to Torah is forbidden, Deut 4:2. Why didn't Yeshua make reference to the blood on the doorposts with his own blood if he kept this law like you're saying? Perfect time to relate the two bloods more than the wine, don't you think?

The blood on the doorposts was a one time thing, just like the plagues of Egypt, and death of the firstborn. We don't deal with the angel of death every Passover.
#26
(08-10-2013, 09:19 PM)Nachshon Wrote: There was no communion back then, and to add to Torah is forbidden, Deut 4:2. Why didn't Yeshua make reference to the blood on the doorposts with his own blood if he kept this law like you're saying? Perfect time to relate the two bloods more than the wine, don't you think?

The blood on the doorposts was a one time thing, just like the plagues of Egypt, and death of the firstborn. We don't deal with the angel of death every Passover.

Jesus never added a communion as a Torah command, he said you can do it as often as you want in remembrance of him. He didn't say you have to do it, it is Torah.

It doesn't matter if the blood on the doorposts were a one time "thing" you don't even keep the rest of how the Passover lamb is prepared anyway.
#27
(08-11-2013, 05:33 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: Jesus never added a communion as a Torah command, he said you can do it as often as you want in remembrance of him. He didn't say you have to do it, it is Torah.
Okay, so don't do it. This is no different from someone not entering into a levirate marriage if they don't want to. You have an option in Torah.

(08-11-2013, 05:33 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: It doesn't matter if you the blood on the doorposts were a one time "thing" you don't even keep the rest of how the Passover lamb is prepared.
So you admit Yeshua did not fulfill this "command" of yours as evidenced by him not referring to the blood on the door posts. Okay.

The temple doesn't exists so the passover lamb or goat is not required.
#28
(07-21-2013, 06:54 PM)dantech Wrote: Tell me, what is considered a sin in christianity? I'm curious.
Murdering? Stealing? Premarital sex?

Where do you learn that these are indeed sins?

Tell me, do you keep this law?

11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:

12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.
Deuteronomy 25
#29
(08-13-2013, 09:45 AM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(07-21-2013, 06:54 PM)dantech Wrote: Tell me, what is considered a sin in christianity? I'm curious.
Murdering? Stealing? Premarital sex?

Where do you learn that these are indeed sins?

Tell me, do you keep this law?

11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:

12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.
Deuteronomy 25
You don't answer the questions posted of you MJ, why? You run away.

The hand in this verse deals with monetary compensation. We see that in Tanakh, hand and money are associated in various places, i.e., Prov 17:16; Gen 43:12; 2 Kings 12:15; Deut 14:25. The same idiom is used with eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, dealing with monetary compensation.

So, the hand/money is cut-off from the person embarrasing another in public. Judaism does not believe in maiming a person.
#30
(06-07-2013, 08:19 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(04-29-2013, 07:21 AM)dantech Wrote: After reading these verses, it is pretty clear that Jesus agrees that the Old Testament is the true word of God. He goes even further and says that we should fulfill these laws, and not ignore a single "iota" or "dot" from these laws.

But if that is true, Do the Jews for Jesus follow these laws?

Christ never said we should fulfill these laws. Christ said he fulfilled these laws.
That's not true. Matthew 5:17-19 says:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So, heaven and earth haven't passed away, and he did not fulfill everything, so you need to MJ.


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)