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Issues with the NT
#31
MessianicJew Wrote:The lamb is the Feast. I'm asking you if you've kept what the law says which is to bring a lamb every man for his house and prepare it like you're suppose to.

Deuteronomy 16:3 explicitly directs us to offer the Pesach only “in the place G-D will choose to rest His name,” which is elsewhere shown to be the Temple in Jerusalem (I Kings 8:43, Isaiah 18:7). However, the rest of the feast is doable today. You are correct that if all we had was Exodus 12, we might think that the Pesach can be offered outside Temple grounds. This is why we have Deuteronomy 16, so we know that the Pesach in Egypt was the exception to this rule.

MessianicJew Wrote:First off Numbers doesn't call it a sacrifice, but an offering…offerings are different from sacrifices.

If Numbers calls it an "offering," why do you think it's not an offering?
(08-05-2013, 12:37 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: A Passover is not an offering
(08-08-2013, 07:41 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: The Passover is [a] sacrifice for remembrance.

You are arguing this point based solely on a translation, not the original Hebrew. Numbers 9:13 calls the Pesach a קָרְבַּן, which the KJV usually renders “offering,” because the root is קָרֹב, which means “close,” and when one offers to G-D that which is his he draws closer to G-D. Leviticus speaks about when one offers a קָרְבַּן from the cattle or from the flock, yet most people will tell you these chapters are speaking of “sacrifices.” The word קָרְבַּן is used in Numbers 7 when the princes brought animals and property for the dedication of the Tabernacle. The words "offering" and "sacrifice" can be interchangeable.

Next time, I would recommend understanding the Hebrew terms before arguing about what words mean. For someone who doesn’t know Hebrew, you do it a lot.

MessianicJew Wrote:
benyosef Wrote:I said religion is NOT on hold, for we are still bound by the commandments which apply forever (Deuteronomy 29:29)…According to Christianity…why did they bother keeping the laws [between the Temples]?...
To reiterate what I said earlier: the lack of a Temple does not imply the relaxation of every law…

This coming from one who tries to lump a Passover in with a sin sacrifice, a sacrifice is for sin. The Passover is sacrifice for remembrance.

First, go back to where you think I said this, because that doesn’t sound like anything I said. What I actually said was:
(07-15-2013, 08:38 AM)benyosef Wrote: the fourth gospel and others make the claim that J was a Passover sacrifice
(08-05-2013, 10:13 PM)benyosef Wrote: The function of a Passover wasn't for sin and atonement, but to eat

Second, what does your comment here have to do with what I said? Is this your only response?
#32
(08-13-2013, 11:04 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(06-07-2013, 08:19 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(04-29-2013, 07:21 AM)dantech Wrote: After reading these verses, it is pretty clear that Jesus agrees that the Old Testament is the true word of God. He goes even further and says that we should fulfill these laws, and not ignore a single "iota" or "dot" from these laws.

But if that is true, Do the Jews for Jesus follow these laws?

Christ never said we should fulfill these laws. Christ said he fulfilled these laws.
That's not true. Matthew 5:17-19 says:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So, heaven and earth haven't passed away, and he did not fulfill everything, so you need to MJ.

27 You have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Do you keep this law?
#33
(08-13-2013, 10:59 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(08-13-2013, 09:45 AM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(07-21-2013, 06:54 PM)dantech Wrote: Tell me, what is considered a sin in christianity? I'm curious.
Murdering? Stealing? Premarital sex?

Where do you learn that these are indeed sins?

Tell me, do you keep this law?

11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:

12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.
Deuteronomy 25
You don't answer the questions posted of you MJ, why? You run away.

The hand in this verse deals with monetary compensation. We see that in Tanakh, hand and money are associated in various places, i.e., Prov 17:16; Gen 43:12; 2 Kings 12:15; Deut 14:25. The same idiom is used with eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, dealing with monetary compensation.

So, the hand/money is cut-off from the person embarrasing another in public. Judaism does not believe in maiming a person.

Post #24 I answered the question asked.

6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Do you keep this law?

7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

Do you keep this law?

18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Do you keep this law?
#34
(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Okay, so don't do it. This is no different from someone not entering into a levirate marriage if they don't want to. You have an option in Torah.

Why not? I keep communion.

Show me what levirate marriage has to do with allowing you to marry a Moabite?

(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: So you admit Yeshua did not fulfill this "command" of yours as evidenced by him not referring to the blood on the door posts. Okay.

The temple doesn't exists so the passover lamb or goat is not required.

I can't say, it does say they "prepared" the Passover. So a lot could have taken place in preparing.

Once again, your last comment is utter futile. The Temple was 'not' required for the passover lamb which every man is to take for his household. You keep making stuff up. You've never kept the Passover and are living in sin. The temple was not built before the passover law, it wasn't required during the passover!
#35
(08-17-2013, 07:05 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Okay, so don't do it. This is no different from someone not entering into a levirate marriage if they don't want to. You have an option in Torah.

Why not? I keep communion.

Show me what levirate marriage has to do with allowing you to marry a Moabite?
I'm showing you your inconsistent approach to an optional communion, and your bashing of other people in this forum when they tell you that levirate marriage is not required if a brother does not to choose that option.

Show me where Boaz is said to have sinned since Solomon specifically we are told that he did.

(08-17-2013, 07:05 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: So you admit Yeshua did not fulfill this "command" of yours as evidenced by him not referring to the blood on the door posts. Okay.

The temple doesn't exists so the passover lamb or goat is not required.
I can't say, it does say they "prepared" the Passover. So a lot could have taken place in preparing.
I can. It says your inconsistent and have no answer. Yeshua didn't mention the blood on the dooor post because there wasn't any. It's obvious.

(08-17-2013, 07:05 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: Once again, your last comment is utter futile. The Temple was 'not' required for the passover lamb which every man is to take for his household. You keep making stuff up. You've never kept the Passover and are living in sin. The temple was not built before the passover law, it wasn't required during the passover!
Mat 5:17-20 would require you to keep the passover laws. Do you?
#36
(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Okay, so don't do it. This is no different from someone not entering into a levirate marriage if they don't want to. You have an option in Torah.

Prove it.

(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: So you admit Yeshua did not fulfill this "command" of yours as evidenced by him not referring to the blood on the door posts. Okay.

The temple doesn't exists so the passover lamb or goat is not required.

No, it isn't written so you can't assume, unlike you, you like to make assumptions. I can tell with that 'you admit' comment.

The Passover is never connected to the Temple, never. It was written in Exodus, and it is a lamb. Not a goat.

You don't keep this law.
#37
(08-14-2013, 11:17 AM)benyosef Wrote: Deuteronomy 16:3 explicitly directs us to offer the Pesach only “in the place G-D will choose to rest His name,” which is elsewhere shown to be the Temple in Jerusalem (I Kings 8:43, Isaiah 18:7). However, the rest of the feast is doable today. You are correct that if all we had was Exodus 12, we might think that the Pesach can be offered outside Temple grounds. This is why we have Deuteronomy 16, so we know that the Pesach in Egypt was the exception to this rule.

The Temple was for prayer. In Joshua, they had passover, and you can't answer that, and Nachshon doesn't eat pork but gives baloney commentary for an answer.

(08-14-2013, 11:17 AM)benyosef Wrote: First, go back to where you think I said this, because that doesn’t sound like anything I said. What I actually said was:
(07-15-2013, 08:38 AM)benyosef Wrote: the fourth gospel and others make the claim that J was a Passover sacrifice
(08-05-2013, 10:13 PM)benyosef Wrote: The function of a Passover wasn't for sin and atonement, but to eat

Second, what does your comment here have to do with what I said? Is this your only response?

You're trying to eliminate Passover, but the Temple was for prayer, and the Tabernacle for sin sacrifices. The Passover is for neither. You're not keeping the Passover 'by the hand of Moses' and you've substituted it with the 'hand of Solomon' which is ironic seeing as he was one big sinner. Now, so are you...
#38
(08-25-2013, 02:52 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Okay, so don't do it. This is no different from someone not entering into a levirate marriage if they don't want to. You have an option in Torah.
Prove it.
BenYosef already did this with you, remember? Deut 25:5-10.

(08-25-2013, 02:52 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: So you admit Yeshua did not fulfill this "command" of yours as evidenced by him not referring to the blood on the door posts. Okay.

The temple doesn't exists so the passover lamb or goat is not required.
No, it isn't written so you can't assume, unlike you, you like to make assumptions. I can tell with that 'you admit' comment.
Just like your assumptions about Boaz sinning and marrying Ruth, though Tanakh doesn't say Boaz sinned, but received the blessings from the leaders of Israel instead?

Yeshua had the perfect opportunity to connect the blood of the covenant with the blood on the doorpost, but he failed to. Silence is golden.

(08-25-2013, 02:52 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: The Passover is never connected to the Temple, never. It was written in Exodus, and it is a lamb. Not a goat.
Read Deut 4:1, 16:1-17. Exodus 12:5 says you can use a goat. How did Yeshua fulfill this? Was he the goat of the World too?

(08-25-2013, 02:52 PM)MessianicJew Wrote: You don't keep this law.
So, stop evading the question. Please tell me how you keep all of the laws since Yeshua requires you to in Matthew 5:17-20.
#39
I thought the blood was commanded to be put on the doorposts and windows or any entry. I was under the impression that Jesus covered His disciples with His blood so that they wouldn't be destroyed when destruction came to the Jews at the hands of the Romans.

I also thought the entries represented the heart, which was the center of our wills. Those that followed Jesus had purified consciences and circumcised hearts, their former sins covered with the blood of the Lamb.
#40
(08-27-2013, 08:32 AM)Nachshon Wrote: Deut 25:5-10.

Has nothing to do with marrying a non-Israelite.

(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Just like your assumptions about Boaz sinning and marrying Ruth, though Tanakh doesn't say Boaz sinned, but received the blessings from the leaders of Israel instead?

It doesn't have to say he sinned. Are you that inept? And the Lord never answered the blessing directly through a Prophet. Boaz and King David are both in the line of Jesse the root of Jesse is Jesus. Thankfully it passes through the Dads side. As Ruth is not a Israelite.

(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Yeshua had the perfect opportunity to connect the blood of the covenant with the blood on the doorpost, but he failed to. Silence is golden.

Jesus said God gave him the power to forgive men of their sins. It was Apostle John who made a comparison not a "connection". You assume.

(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Read Deut 4:1, 16:1-17. Exodus 12:5 says you can use a goat. How did Yeshua fulfill this? Was he the goat of the World too?

Exodus 12:5 says your lamb can be taken from sheep or goats. Lamb is a lamb though.

And Deuteronomy 4:1 is so easy seeing as you believe you don't have to keep much of the law anymore anyway.

(08-12-2013, 12:51 PM)Nachshon Wrote: So, stop evading the question. Please tell me how you keep all of the laws since Yeshua requires you to in Matthew 5:17-20.

I haven't kept the law that pertains to the heart, hatred, vengeance etc. that makes any of the commands I've kept void. My obedience then is nullified. That is why Christ is pure and the supernatural High Priest of Adonai who has been given the power to forgive men of their sins. Jesus atoned, it is up to him. He fulfilled it walking perfectly wholehearted before Adonai, no wrath hatred lust envy coveting etc.

I've kept Shabbat, Yom Kippor etc. But, Passover I haven't. Neither have you, and your works are void. Because Passover is a generational command that no seder attendance can fulfill.

You not keeping the commands is a bigger issue seeing as you are held to your own obedience. You don't get that not keeping those that you haven't kept are as bad as eating pork.


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