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"If I had faked the Resurrection..."
#11
Surely J had his opinion, Mohammad has his, Krishna his, and all their believers can claim valid testimony and say they now know them, but we Jews like to ask "What's G-D's opinion?" And so, I really do not take issue with anyone who says they believe in J based on faith. People can believe what they want. I am here to help clarify the texts for those who say they can prove J based on the Torah.
#12
(09-15-2013, 01:14 PM)benyosef Wrote: Surely J had his opinion, Mohammad has his, Krishna his, and all their believers can claim valid testimony and say they now know them, but we Jews like to ask "What's G-D's opinion?" And so, I really do not take issue with anyone who says they believe in J based on faith. People can believe what they want. I am here to help clarify the texts for those who say they can prove J based on the Torah.

Hahaha thank you very much, that's really big of you.
"we Jews..." are you sure of that?
#13
(09-16-2013, 01:15 AM)A. Bird Wrote: "we Jews..." are you sure of that?

Yes. Obviously "we Jews" does not refer to Jews who believe in Baal, J, Asheirah, or are atheists. Jews who worship the G-D of Avraham, Yitzchak, and Yaakov ask such a question.
#14
(09-16-2013, 01:36 PM)benyosef Wrote:
(09-16-2013, 01:15 AM)A. Bird Wrote: "we Jews..." are you sure of that?

Yes. Obviously "we Jews" does not refer to Jews who believe in Baal, J, Asheirah, or are atheists. Jews who worship the G-D of Avraham, Yitzchak, and Yaakov ask such a question.

Smile Can you explain to me this whole thing with "J" and "G minus D" please?
Why don't you write Jesus' name out and why don't you write God out?
#15
A. Bird Wrote:Can you explain to me this whole thing with "J" and "G minus D" please?
Why don't you write Jesus' name out and why don't you write God out?

Sure. Out of respect for G-D's name, I don't write it in full, but dash out the "o."
As for Christianity's master, I don't like mentioning the names of false gods. If so, you may ask, why do I write out "Baal" and "Asheira?" The Torah spells them out, and so I do, too. Another reason is to conserve space on this 3000-character-per-post forum, where sometimes four letters makes a difference.

A. Bird Wrote:There is nothing we can add to what the historians have said, all you can do is insist on not believing their testimonies.

The historians have said nothing regarding the alleged resurrection, so what testimony is there?
#16
(09-22-2013, 08:06 PM)benyosef Wrote:
A. Bird Wrote:Can you explain to me this whole thing with "J" and "G minus D" please?
Why don't you write Jesus' name out and why don't you write God out?

Sure. Out of respect for G-D's name, I don't write it in full, but dash out the "o."
As for Christianity's master, I don't like mentioning the names of false gods. If so, you may ask, why do I write out "Baal" and "Asheira?" The Torah spells them out, and so I do, too. Another reason is to conserve space on this 3000-character-per-post forum, where sometimes four letters makes a difference.

Thank you, interesting. But Jesus is a man.
Some might think you draw a comparison between God and Jesus, seeing that those are the two words you choose to distort.

(09-22-2013, 08:06 PM)benyosef Wrote:
A. Bird Wrote:There is nothing we can add to what the historians have said, all you can do is insist on not believing their testimonies.

The historians have said nothing regarding the alleged resurrection, so what testimony is there?

All the historians give report of our Lord's resurrection and more!
Who testifies otherwise?
Your problem is that you put yourself in a Catch 22 situation, saying that you can't believe those who confirm our Lord's resurrection because they were Christians. Of course they were! It was because they knew, that they became Christians.
Or are you looking for a person to give testimony of Y'shua's resurrection yet wait for another messiah?
#17
A. Bird Wrote:Thank you, interesting. But Jesus is a man. Some might think you draw a comparison between God and Jesus, seeing that those are the two words you choose to distort.

I understand. I think the content of my posts should resolve whatever confusion arises.

A. Bird Wrote:All the historians give report of our Lord's resurrection and more! Who testifies otherwise?
Your problem is that you put yourself in a Catch 22 situation, saying that you can't believe those who confirm our Lord's resurrection because they were Christians. Of course they were! It was because they knew, that they became Christians.

If a Christian historian wrote that he actually witnessed the resurrection then you would have a good argument. The problem is that the gospel writers do not record the actual resurrection, and certainly do not hint that anyone viewed it. Instead they weave stories around an empty tomb as if there was no other explanation. No contemporary historian spoke of it (and I have not yet found one who even mentions the Nazarene), and modern historians who speak of it do so on faith alone, which is not enough to prove its authenticity.
#18
(10-01-2013, 09:05 AM)benyosef Wrote:
A. Bird Wrote:All the historians give report of our Lord's resurrection and more! Who testifies otherwise?
Your problem is that you put yourself in a Catch 22 situation, saying that you can't believe those who confirm our Lord's resurrection because they were Christians. Of course they were! It was because they knew, that they became Christians.

If a Christian historian wrote that he actually witnessed the resurrection then you would have a good argument. The problem is that the gospel writers do not record the actual resurrection, and certainly do not hint that anyone viewed it. Instead they weave stories around an empty tomb as if there was no other explanation. No contemporary historian spoke of it (and I have not yet found one who even mentions the Nazarene), and modern historians who speak of it do so on faith alone, which is not enough to prove its authenticity.

Mmmm wow, I've never thought about that, maybe you're right and it's all a big mistake. Oh my what to do, what to do... LOL
Hahaha.
#19
Lightbulb 
(10-02-2013, 01:14 PM)A. Bird Wrote:
(10-01-2013, 09:05 AM)benyosef Wrote:
A. Bird Wrote:All the historians give report of our Lord's resurrection and more! Who testifies otherwise?
Your problem is that you put yourself in a Catch 22 situation, saying that you can't believe those who confirm our Lord's resurrection because they were Christians. Of course they were! It was because they knew, that they became Christians.

If a Christian historian wrote that he actually witnessed the resurrection then you would have a good argument. The problem is that the gospel writers do not record the actual resurrection, and certainly do not hint that anyone viewed it. Instead they weave stories around an empty tomb as if there was no other explanation. No contemporary historian spoke of it (and I have not yet found one who even mentions the Nazarene), and modern historians who speak of it do so on faith alone, which is not enough to prove its authenticity.

Mmmm wow, I've never thought about that, maybe you're right and it's all a big mistake. Oh my what to do, what to do... LOL Big Grin
Hahaha.

There is a great deal of discussion in this thread about demands for texts by contemporary historians who wrote about Jesus' resurrection.

A while back, someone asked me to name historical sources outside of the Bible which prove that Moses actually existed, let alone performed miracles.

I couldn't think of any.

What do you say, folks? Who can cite texts outside of the Tenach which say that Moses existed? If there are any, how can we be sure they weren't written by people who weren't objective? What independent verification of Moses' miracles can we point to?

And if there is none...?
#20
Well I think some of the best proof of Moses' existence can be found in the writings of Prof. Dr. Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger.


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