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"If I had faked the Resurrection..."
#31
(10-08-2013, 01:09 PM)A. Bird Wrote: You don't have to see the sunrise to know that it rose.

(10-08-2013, 11:05 AM)Nachshon Wrote: The sunrise has been verified over and over again, and is a part of nature. It is repeatable. The resurrection isn't. You need a credible account to make it believable and witnesses as well.

Have you seen the sunrise this morning? How do you know it rose?
You just have to see the resurrected King on the Throne of David to know that He is alive.

Further more, I remember from our previous conversation how much you know about the resurrection. Of course it is repeatable.
As is the case, however, with the rising of the sun so is the case with the ressurrection; The blind has no part in it, except for feeling the heat on their skin.
Even you are sustained by our Lord's resurrection, as is written:
My Father in heaven makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Nonetheless, “May all your enemies perish, O Lord! But your friends be like the sun as he rises in his might.
Of this you will have little part until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your heart.

(10-08-2013, 11:05 AM)Nachshon Wrote: Just like Islam and Christianity trust in the account of the revelation at Sinai due to the millions of witnesses, then so would JC's resurrection require a trust worthy acccount with many witnesses.

That's not the reason why we know that Moses was for real. All of that could just have been some stories made up by those you call teachers, many historians have speculated that the Bible is all myth.
We know that Moses was for real because Y'shua confirms him.
If it wasn't for Y'shua, Moses would not have been there, if it wasn't for Y'shua, you would not have been there, if it wasn't for Y'shua none would have existed because from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever.
#32
(10-11-2013, 04:29 AM)A. Bird Wrote: Have you seen the sunrise this morning? How do you know it rose?
You just have to see the resurrected King on the Throne of David to know that He is alive.
The earth's cycles have nothing to do with JC. By the way, I did see the sunrise this morning coming into work early. Unlike JC's resurrection which no one saw.

(10-11-2013, 04:29 AM)A. Bird Wrote: Further more, I remember from our previous conversation how much you know about the resurrection. Of course it is repeatable.
As is the case, however, with the rising of the sun so is the case with the ressurrection; The blind has no part in it, except for feeling the heat on their skin.
I can see you don't have much of a response.

(10-11-2013, 04:29 AM)A. Bird Wrote: That's not the reason why we know that Moses was for real. All of that could just have been some stories made up by those you call teachers, many historians have speculated that the Bible is all myth.
Then why are you here if you doubt your own basis for belief and prophecies, the Tanakh!

(10-11-2013, 04:29 AM)A. Bird Wrote: We know that Moses was for real because Y'shua confirms him.
If it wasn't for Y'shua, Moses would not have been there, if it wasn't for Y'shua, you would not have been there, if it wasn't for Y'shua none would have existed because from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever.
We know Moses was real because he was a prophet confirmed of G-d and called out in Tanakh.

See you later A. Bird! Smile
#33
(10-11-2013, 12:59 PM)Nachshon Wrote: See you later A. Bird! Smile

Elusive, pulling a fast one hey, Wink See you sooner than later Nachshon. Smile
#34
(10-10-2013, 01:42 PM)benyosef Wrote: It's not so much the sheer numbers, but the percentage. 100% of the Jews were present when G-D gave the Torah at Sinai, so you would have a 1:1 chance of finding a Jew who witnessed it. No one saw the resurrection, but even if thousands did, there should be a way to find them to verify the claims. If Paul said that the 500 people who allegedly also saw him after he was risen were the entire population of City X, then people would be able to go to City X and ask them if it happened, and there you would have your answer. This is why "over 500 people" doesn't prove his case: he does not provide more information on these people and is thus free to say what he wants. Would you believe me if I said Joseph Smith came from the dead and appeared to a few of my friends and over 3000 others, though some are now dead? I'm sure your first question would be, "who are the 3000?"

0% of Jews (and for that matter 0% of people) were present at Sinai. You have NO chance of finding anybody who witnessed it.
We only believe it because our Lord confirmed it. There are a lot of other nonsense that we know were merely thought up by those people you call rabbis. We don't believe all their stories.

Our Lord's Resurrection on the other hand is proven not only by people who have seen the risen King from generation to generation but also by the fact that many take part in it.
#35
(10-20-2013, 01:34 PM)A. Bird Wrote:
(10-10-2013, 01:42 PM)benyosef Wrote: It's not so much the sheer numbers, but the percentage. 100% of the Jews were present when G-D gave the Torah at Sinai, so you would have a 1:1 chance of finding a Jew who witnessed it. No one saw the resurrection, but even if thousands did, there should be a way to find them to verify the claims. If Paul said that the 500 people who allegedly also saw him after he was risen were the entire population of City X, then people would be able to go to City X and ask them if it happened, and there you would have your answer. This is why "over 500 people" doesn't prove his case: he does not provide more information on these people and is thus free to say what he wants. Would you believe me if I said Joseph Smith came from the dead and appeared to a few of my friends and over 3000 others, though some are now dead? I'm sure your first question would be, "who are the 3000?"

0% of Jews (and for that matter 0% of people) were present at Sinai. You have NO chance of finding anybody who witnessed it.
We only believe it because our Lord confirmed it. There are a lot of other nonsense that we know were merely thought up by those people you call rabbis. We don't believe all their stories.

Our Lord's Resurrection on the other hand is proven not only by people who have seen the risen King from generation to generation but also in the fact that many take part in it.
What does the risen savior look like, blond hair and blue eyes?
#36
(10-21-2013, 09:42 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(10-20-2013, 01:34 PM)A. Bird Wrote:
(10-10-2013, 01:42 PM)benyosef Wrote: It's not so much the sheer numbers, but the percentage. 100% of the Jews were present when G-D gave the Torah at Sinai, so you would have a 1:1 chance of finding a Jew who witnessed it. No one saw the resurrection, but even if thousands did, there should be a way to find them to verify the claims. If Paul said that the 500 people who allegedly also saw him after he was risen were the entire population of City X, then people would be able to go to City X and ask them if it happened, and there you would have your answer. This is why "over 500 people" doesn't prove his case: he does not provide more information on these people and is thus free to say what he wants. Would you believe me if I said Joseph Smith came from the dead and appeared to a few of my friends and over 3000 others, though some are now dead? I'm sure your first question would be, "who are the 3000?"

0% of Jews (and for that matter 0% of people) were present at Sinai. You have NO chance of finding anybody who witnessed it.
We only believe it because our Lord confirmed it. There are a lot of other nonsense that we know were merely thought up by those people you call rabbis. We don't believe all their stories.

Our Lord's Resurrection on the other hand is proven not only by people who have seen the risen King from generation to generation but also in the fact that many take part in it.
What does the risen savior look like, blond hair and blue eyes?

I have seen the Saviour many times, also know his voice. I have also seen some of His wounds, His stripes.
#37
(10-21-2013, 09:42 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(10-20-2013, 01:34 PM)A. Bird Wrote:
(10-10-2013, 01:42 PM)benyosef Wrote: It's not so much the sheer numbers, but the percentage. 100% of the Jews were present when G-D gave the Torah at Sinai, so you would have a 1:1 chance of finding a Jew who witnessed it. No one saw the resurrection, but even if thousands did, there should be a way to find them to verify the claims. If Paul said that the 500 people who allegedly also saw him after he was risen were the entire population of City X, then people would be able to go to City X and ask them if it happened, and there you would have your answer. This is why "over 500 people" doesn't prove his case: he does not provide more information on these people and is thus free to say what he wants. Would you believe me if I said Joseph Smith came from the dead and appeared to a few of my friends and over 3000 others, though some are now dead? I'm sure your first question would be, "who are the 3000?"

0% of Jews (and for that matter 0% of people) were present at Sinai. You have NO chance of finding anybody who witnessed it.
We only believe it because our Lord confirmed it. There are a lot of other nonsense that we know were merely thought up by those people you call rabbis. We don't believe all their stories.

Our Lord's Resurrection on the other hand is proven not only by people who have seen the risen King from generation to generation but also in the fact that many take part in it.
What does the risen savior look like, blond hair and blue eyes?

No.
He is clothed in a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head are white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes are like a flame of fire, his feet are like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice is like the roar of many waters. From his mouth comes a sharp two-edged sword, and his face is like the sun shining in full strength.
Again
From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he rules them with a rod of iron. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his banner he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

Have I quoted you Bob Dylan yet?

Uttering idle words from a reprobate mind
Clinging to strange promises, dying on the vine
Never bein’ able to separate the good from the bad
Ooh, I can’t stand it, I can’t stand it
It’s makin’ me feel so sad

Dead man, dead man
When will you arise?
Cobwebs in your mind
Dust upon your eyes
#38
(10-23-2013, 11:45 AM)A. Bird Wrote:
(10-21-2013, 09:42 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(10-20-2013, 01:34 PM)A. Bird Wrote:
(10-10-2013, 01:42 PM)benyosef Wrote: It's not so much the sheer numbers, but the percentage. 100% of the Jews were present when G-D gave the Torah at Sinai, so you would have a 1:1 chance of finding a Jew who witnessed it. No one saw the resurrection, but even if thousands did, there should be a way to find them to verify the claims. If Paul said that the 500 people who allegedly also saw him after he was risen were the entire population of City X, then people would be able to go to City X and ask them if it happened, and there you would have your answer. This is why "over 500 people" doesn't prove his case: he does not provide more information on these people and is thus free to say what he wants. Would you believe me if I said Joseph Smith came from the dead and appeared to a few of my friends and over 3000 others, though some are now dead? I'm sure your first question would be, "who are the 3000?"

0% of Jews (and for that matter 0% of people) were present at Sinai. You have NO chance of finding anybody who witnessed it.
We only believe it because our Lord confirmed it. There are a lot of other nonsense that we know were merely thought up by those people you call rabbis. We don't believe all their stories.

Our Lord's Resurrection on the other hand is proven not only by people who have seen the risen King from generation to generation but also in the fact that many take part in it.
What does the risen savior look like, blond hair and blue eyes?

No.
He is clothed in a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head are white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes are like a flame of fire, his feet are like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice is like the roar of many waters. From his mouth comes a sharp two-edged sword, and his face is like the sun shining in full strength.
Again
From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he rules them with a rod of iron. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his banner he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

Have I quoted you Bob Dylan yet?

Uttering idle words from a reprobate mind
Clinging to strange promises, dying on the vine
Never bein’ able to separate the good from the bad
Ooh, I can’t stand it, I can’t stand it
It’s makin’ me feel so sad

Dead man, dead man
When will you arise?
Cobwebs in your mind
Dust upon your eyes
Have I quoted for you Willie Nelson

Turn out the lights, the party's over,
Pack up your bags, and say goodbye Smile
#39
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Go into your room, close the door, go on your knees and pray:
"Y'shua, you who the nations call Jesus or Jesu, the one they claim to be Messiah, please show me, make me certain of your reign, if you are the anointed King, help me, show it to my heart."
#40
A. Bird, I agree that a historian is not necessarily one who lived during said time, but when we consider modern historians, where do they get their information? Instead of referencing people who lived during Jesus' time and could have written about him, you send me several books on Amazon written by (surprisingly) devout Christians. Where do they get their historical evidence for Jesus? Did anyone from back then actually write about this amazing miracle-worker who, we are told by the gospels, had throngs of people from all over following him and witnessing his numerous feats? Or do all we have is a Christian insertion into the text of someone who certainly knew nothing of your lord?

A. Bird Wrote:0% of Jews (and for that matter 0% of people) were present at Sinai. You have NO chance of finding anybody who witnessed it.

"In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai. For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount." (Exodus 19:1-2)

If the Jews weren't there, who was G-D talking to?

In those days you could find people who witnessed the Revelation at Sinai. In Paul's days, who was around who could verify the resurrection account? Hundreds of unnamed, unidentified people (allegedly). What chance did anyone have to verify it? No one saw the actual resurrection, and no one wanted to tell us demographics.

A. Bird Wrote:Our Lord's Resurrection on the other hand is proven not only by people who have seen the risen King from generation to generation but also by the fact that many take part in it.

How convenient, then, that your lord only appeared to those who were already close to him. Does the fact that many people worship Krishna and Buddha lend credence to their claims because it's gone on for generations?


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