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Yeshua, the virgin birth, and Isaiah 7:14
#21
Nachshon Wrote:The order doesn't matter. You must fulfill every word of prophecy, not just what is convenient for you.

You cannot dismiss prophecy on the those grounds because God often accomplishes His will over a longer period of time.

I already pointed out some of the Israelites complained against Moses because he had not yet brought them into the good land.

It is your own arbitrary requirement that all aspects of a divine promise must be accomplished in one moment. On those grounds Abraham could have accused God of false prophecy because he did not see all the fulfillment of God's words in his lifetime.

While selecting what is convenient could be an error, I agree, also impatience with the God's way of unfolding all of His will, just as much can be a human error of unbelief.

Nachshon Wrote:Let's be clear about that. This does not prove the incarnation, in fact it disproves it.

Proof in a mathematical sense, of the incarnation, I do not claim to give you. Strong evidence which fuel's our faith is there for our persuasion.

This is a matter of faith. But not faith alone. Our faith is one side of the matter. The faithfulness of God is the other side. We have faith. God is FAITHFUL.

Nachshon Wrote:It is clear that not everything else in the chapter has anything to do with the incarnation of the Son of God.

Since there is no explicit claim in the NT that relvancy IS there in the other verses, that is no problem.

Nachshon Wrote:Isaiah was inspired to write the whole book, not just one verse like Matthew.

The entire book of Matthew is the inspired word of God. This is just a given as the Tanakh is the word of God is a given with both of us.

You chide "argument from authority" in one comment. Fine. But you hold such a faith also in Isaiah and the other 38 books of the Hebrew Bible.

I have no doubt that Matthew is the word of God. And I have no doubt that if anyone was ever "God With Us" it is Jesus.

I have no more time to comment right now.
#22
Quick point that needs to be made:

(09-19-2013, 07:10 AM)Azriel Wrote: As in fact the Hebrew bible used in the day of the 2nd, Temple was the Jewish Septuagint, which was a Greek translation, by Jewish scribes, seeing Greek was the most used language of the day,those scrolls which had not yet been destroyed by Rome. Within those pages of Isaiah the name of the woman was translated ;virgin. Matthew correctly quoted the verse, and had he quoted differently from them he would have been accused of unfulfilment as you do to us today.

The Septuagint (LXX) was not written for the Jewish People's benefit, but to make the Torah accessible to non-Jews. If Ptolmey had the Jews in mind, he would not have put the rabbis into separate cubicles.

Additionally, the word the LXX uses in Isaiah 7:14, "parthenos," which is claimed to mean only virgin, is also used in Genesis 34:3 to describe Dinah after she was raped and no longer a virgin, so the LXX using "parthenos" in Isaiah 7 does not imply virginity.

Further, the rabbis only translated the Five Books of Moshe, not the entire Jewish Scripture. The Church would come along later and add the rest, and would even edit what the Jews wrote in the Five Books. So, for a Christian to appeal to the LXX as to how to translate or interpret a verse is circular reasoning.
#23
(09-21-2013, 08:52 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(09-19-2013, 07:10 AM)Azriel Wrote:
(09-18-2013, 04:07 PM)Nachshon Wrote: The order doesn't matter. You must fulfill every word of prophecy, not just what is convenient for you. Let's be clear about that. This does not prove the incarnation, in fact it disproves it.
If you hadn't noticed All prophesy is not completely fulfilled. That is why they call it prophesy. To say Yeshua must fulfill what hasn't yet occurred is preposterous.
Isa 7:14 and Isa 9:6(5) were fulfilled in the timeframe of Isaiah, King Ahaz, and Hezekiah. Please look at the context.

(09-19-2013, 07:10 AM)Azriel Wrote: YHVH came first to refine the heart of His people Israel.Don't worry Yeshua has it covered!
You look at one man and not the G-D who has Immanuel from Israel's birth who has visited Israel many times, left to a remnant called Jewish Christians
The Tanakh mentions nothing about Jewish Christians, but only Israel.
[Isaiah 56:4 For this is what the Lord says:


“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose what pleases me
and hold fast to my covenant—
5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that will endure forever.
6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord
to minister to him,
to love the name of the Lord,
and to be his servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant—
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain
and give them joy in my house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices
will be accepted on my altar;
for my house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Sovereign Lord declares—
he who gathers the exiles of Israel:
“I will gather still others to them
besides those already gathered.”


Throughout the Hebrew Bible prophesies Messiah who will bring salvation from the cup of overflowing Grace to Israel, and to the gentiles in the latter days.

Again you look at the name, and not the G-D who has been always and forever, who brings His Voice and speaks His Power, and Wrath, and Grace through the Sons, and Son of Israel; Meshiach. You await, as well all Israel awaits the man Messiah. Yeshua will return when Messiah comes ; Immanuel ;The Spirit of YHVH has visited the generations, and measured the hearts of the people of the Fathers many times, and will return to execute His Redemption for Eternal Peace.

It is Grace that begins us and Grace that ends us. It's very fortunate for you , and all Israel, and for those gentiles who accept that Grace through Yeshua Meshiach Hashems Promise of Grace never wavers.

May YHVH bless your life in the Sabbaths in the coming seasons, and I pray for the safety of Israel in it's growing threat of Islam, and Land for peace which false Christians push Israel into accepting.

True Christians stand for Israel undivided . It's not a Name , or what one says they are ; It is what you do is who you are.
#24
(09-24-2013, 06:11 AM)Azriel Wrote: True Christians stand for Israel undivided . It's not a Name , or what one says they are ; It is what you do is who you are.
Azriel, I appreciate all Christians like you who stand and support Israel. Thanks Smile
#25
Thankyou Nachshon, I believe sometimes in communication through a forum , we tend to lose sight of the whole person we are addressing, leaving us with only a part of that person ,not knowing their true identity, their lifestyle, and who that person really is; how they give of themselves to others, and their trust and identity in friends and family. Many times we just weigh our theological indifferences with each other, and our witness to one another becomes words, and not who we are, what we do. It's hard for me to explain what I am trying to say; I suppose making our words become living reflecting life, and compassion, and of charity towards other people , and each other. We probably would agree in many areas of our lives; politically, morals, etc.[Luke 10:25-37]

Though in theological indifference, we both rest our lives and moral values upon the commandments on Sinai. All other laws rest upon the foundation of these 10 laws. The Commandments are what has brought us here in a forum of reasoning, without thinking about causing bodily harm to one another, or suppressing each others right to believe, and express our faith , hoping for peace, and a common ground.

Regardless of my words, which without doubt sometimes are blunt , I have only judged words upon the standard of my faith , or as you said; weighed our words upon the light , or standard of Scriptures , but I realize that standard is not just set upon an outward act, but set upon the heart, in which the foundation is compassion, and charity; The heart of YHVH. I never judged your salvation, or the Promise in which YHVH has given unconditionally to the children of Israel . I know Israel is not just a physical area of land, but a Kingdom as well that lives within the children of Israel, and to those who consecrate their lives in trust to YHVH.I have no doubt when all prophesy has been fulfilled ; the journey in which we have entrusted our hearts and lives, even in our own error; YHVH will never reject a heart searching after Him. And in the end there will be no doubt who Meshiach is.

In my studies, and prayers I realize , in respect to this thread; Immanuel is not just about one man, or a virgin mother. If we stop to realize ;any mother, if a Betulah , or virgin ,or an Alma; young woman; or young woman to be wed;In giving birth to a child , however the seed was placed within her that becomes a child ,the mother is not a virgin anymore , but a mother. Immanuel is not just about a young woman , or one man,; Isaiah 7:14 is the Spirit of YHVH born in a Nation..

I believe the prophet Isaiah defined The young woman to be wed ;as the young bride Israel; That in the brides preparation ;her sins are washed clean by YHVH , and she becomes a new bride, a new generation devoted in mind, body ,and soul, washed clean by the blood of the Promised lamb of G-D!

Whether in our indifference, we understand who that lamb was; we must agree within that offering to Abraham; held The Promise of YHVH ; His refining Power that has been with that child from the birth of the nation of Israel ; The promise of life from G-D to the children of Israel,from the cleansing ritual of life ;That brings the Promise of Righteousness and honor to Israel ,that Honor given only to YHVH;for only YHVH is capable of giving Righteousness, and Innocence; Immanuel ;G-D with us.

;Immanuel is not just a Covenant of Law, but an unconditional Promise spoken to Abraham, upon the offering of his son ,[Genesis 22:8]That YHVH would supply His Own offering for Abrahams trust in Him; A specific offering; The lamb of G-D, given for Israel's cleansing. Centuries later that Offering was spoken by the prophet Isaiah ;

53;7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,

For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.


Immanuel has led Israel from the bondage of Egypt, around Sinai, and into the Promised Land, ever cleansing their hearts, and allowing the refining birth pangs of their iniquity become the reason of bringing forth a Holy Nation unto Him , not of Wrath, but for the reason of purification ; for by Hashem's Love ,a New Nation is cast by the Potter in Glory and Honor, without blemish, and spotless to Him; A Nation placed into the furnace of refinement that like fine Gold rises to the surface of impurity; the Potter knowing when it's finished, He will be able to see His Image within it's shining radiance.

Israel; like a young woman; The former generation giving birth to a new generation; Without blemish kept Holy to YHVH; The beginning of a New Nation, from the Mother; who has born a child ; Immanuel; A child that the Spirit of YHVH that lives within them;G-D The Father.

Isaiah 7:14 is not about one child, or one event; It is about the generations, and centuries to follow, and millenniums ; The Promise of eternal life , given to a Nation made pure and spotless by a Holy G-D; The G-D of Israel;

When Israel is finished, and their eye's are no longer obstructed, as looking through translucent glass, or a child in the womb who cannot yet see, only feel the pains of flesh going within him;and in birth who can only now see Images, unrecognizable in form, but now feel that Promise, and security of the mother and know it is there, patiently waiting, and leading them to the end of their journey; When New Jerusalem descends from Heaven, and the Lion of Judah sit's upon His Throne;

The one who rules in Honor, and Love, to a people obedient to Him; When Heaven lives on earth, and sin no longer lives within them; and His Law lives without error in their hearts; When the nations cling to the garments white and pure; washed in the blood of the Lamb of G-D; when our dreams we share of a world manifest without hate, and war, envy, greed, and wickedness; When YHVH lives with us, and we in agreement with Him;


Immanuel is much more than a man, but a nation; Israel ,made Holy for a world lost in sin and iniquity of the nature of man; Cast in the Image of our Creator, and His Spirit dwells within us, and with us; the child that is born by Promise, given in purity and faith ; that promise and faith may bare a new child ; a New Generation; within Israel is born; Immanuel; G-D with us. The One who spoke through Isaac, and Jacob, and Moses, and David , and Jesus ;The One who brought through them was born the Living Morality of Hashems Law made flesh, to walk within their steps , and His Spirit living in them, and through them, not just in one man, but unto a nation Israel and given to a world through Israel; Immanuel; The G-D who lives within us, and us in Him.

One day; when Heaven descends ; New Jerusalem, Temple will stand again upon it's foundation of the Mount ; will be the Gates of the New City

Ezekiel 48;30 “These will be the exits of the city: Beginning on the north side, which is 4,500 cubits long, 31 the gates of the city will be named after the tribes of Israel. The three gates on the north side will be the gate of Reuben, the gate of Judah and the gate of Levi.

32 “On the east side, which is 4,500 cubits long, will be three gates: the gate of Joseph, the gate of Benjamin and the gate of Dan.

33 “On the south side, which measures 4,500 cubits, will be three gates: the gate of Simeon, the gate of Issachar and the gate of Zebulun.

34 “On the west side, which is 4,500 cubits long, will be three gates: the gate of Gad, the gate of Asher and the gate of Naphtali.

35 “The distance all around will be 18,000 cubits.[f]

“And the name of the city from that time on will be:


the Lord is there.”

It is the hope we share; To know Perfect peace will come to this world; Peace that lives within us, and between us! Immanuel
#26
(09-13-2013, 10:59 AM)benyosef Wrote:
(09-13-2013, 10:44 AM)HumblePetitioner Wrote: I am not arguing with you (much) but the word 'pregnant' is a noun not a verb, it describes a condition not a time frame of the condition, the sign to be given is a pregnant maiden who gives birth to a son who is called 'God with us', the LXX has 'gives birth' in the future tense as I am almost certain is the Hebrew, this gives the entire statement a future time frame.

"Pregnant," technically, is an adjective, and thus could be written in present or future tense. Hebrew is different than English in that words are altered to reflect numbers and tenses. For example, the messengers told Jacob that they came (בָּאנוּ) to Esau (Gen 32:6), and then Jacob said if Esau will come (יָבוֹא) to fight (32:9), etc. Same root, בֹּא, but edited to reflect numbers and tenses.

Concerning the LXX: if you look into Josephus, the Anchor Bible Dictionary, or many introductions to modern-day LXX's, you will learn that the rabbis only translated the Five Books of Moses, not the entire Jewish Scriptures. The Church would later add the rest of the Hebrew Bible, and would even edit what the rabbis wrote in the Five Books. Thus, the current LXX's are wholly a product of the Church, designed to further their message, and do not accurately reflect what the Hebrew text says.

Bs'd

And the above is admitted by the RC church:

Here are a few excerpts from the online Catholic Encyclopedia, here to be found:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/ from the entry "Septuagint" which show the reliability of the LXX:

The Christians had recourse to it constantly in their controversies with the Jews, who soon recognized its imperfections, and finally rejected it in favour of the Hebrew text or of more literal translations (Aquila, Theodotion).

On account of its diffusion alone the hellenizing Jews and early Christians, copies of the Septuagint were multiplied; and as might be expected, many changes, deliberate as well as involuntary, crept in.

The Septuagint Version, while giving exactly as to the form and substance the true sense of the Sacred Books, differs nevertheless considerably from our present Hebrew text.

Again, we must not think that we have at present the Greek text exactly as it was written by the translators; the frequent transcriptions during the early centuries, as well as the corrections and editions of Origen, Lucian, and Hesychius impaired the purity of the text: voluntarily or involuntarily the copyists allowed many textual corruptions, transpositions, additions, and omissions to creep into the primitive text of the Septuagint.

So the Catholics openly admit they corrupted the LXX.

(09-23-2013, 10:32 AM)benyosef Wrote: Quick point that needs to be made:

(09-19-2013, 07:10 AM)Azriel Wrote: As in fact the Hebrew bible used in the day of the 2nd, Temple was the Jewish Septuagint, which was a Greek translation, by Jewish scribes, seeing Greek was the most used language of the day,those scrolls which had not yet been destroyed by Rome. Within those pages of Isaiah the name of the woman was translated ;virgin. Matthew correctly quoted the verse, and had he quoted differently from them he would have been accused of unfulfilment as you do to us today.

The Septuagint (LXX) was not written for the Jewish People's benefit, but to make the Torah accessible to non-Jews. If Ptolmey had the Jews in mind, he would not have put the rabbis into separate cubicles.

Additionally, the word the LXX uses in Isaiah 7:14, "parthenos," which is claimed to mean only virgin, is also used in Genesis 34:3 to describe Dinah after she was raped and no longer a virgin, so the LXX using "parthenos" in Isaiah 7 does not imply virginity.

Further, the rabbis only translated the Five Books of Moshe, not the entire Jewish Scripture. The Church would come along later and add the rest, and would even edit what the Jews wrote in the Five Books. So, for a Christian to appeal to the LXX as to how to translate or interpret a verse is circular reasoning.

Bs'd

Of the seven times that the word "almah" appears in the Tanach, the LXX translates is four times as "young woman", one time as "youth", and only two times as "virgin", one of those two times being Isaiah 7:14.

So the translators of the LXX knew very well what "almah" means; "young woman". So why does it state in Isaiah 7:14 "virgin"? Most likely Christian editing of the text.
#27
(01-17-2014, 04:15 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: Bs'd

And the above is admitted by the RC church:

Here are a few excerpts from the online Catholic Encyclopedia, here to be found:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/ from the entry "Septuagint" which show the reliability of the LXX:

The Christians had recourse to it constantly in their controversies with the Jews, who soon recognized its imperfections, and finally rejected it in favour of the Hebrew text or of more literal translations (Aquila, Theodotion).

On account of its diffusion alone the hellenizing Jews and early Christians, copies of the Septuagint were multiplied; and as might be expected, many changes, deliberate as well as involuntary, crept in.

The Septuagint Version, while giving exactly as to the form and substance the true sense of the Sacred Books, differs nevertheless considerably from our present Hebrew text.

Again, we must not think that we have at present the Greek text exactly as it was written by the translators; the frequent transcriptions during the early centuries, as well as the corrections and editions of Origen, Lucian, and Hesychius impaired the purity of the text: voluntarily or involuntarily the copyists allowed many textual corruptions, transpositions, additions, and omissions to creep into the primitive text of the Septuagint.

So the Catholics openly admit they corrupted the LXX.

...

Of the seven times that the word "almah" appears in the Tanach, the LXX translates is four times as "young woman", one time as "youth", and only two times as "virgin", one of those two times being Isaiah 7:14.

So the translators of the LXX knew very well what "almah" means; "young woman". So why does it state in Isaiah 7:14 "virgin"? Most likely Christian editing of the text.
Thank you for the references Smile

Kol Hakavod
#28
Bs'd

The prophecy of Isaiah 7:

1: In the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, son of Uzzi'ah, king of Judah, Rezin the king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remali'ah the king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to wage war against it, but they could not conquer it. 2: When the house of David was told, "Syria is in league with E'phraim," his heart and the heart of his people shook as the trees of the forest shake before the wind. 3: And the LORD said to Isaiah, "Go forth to meet Ahaz, you and She'ar-jash'ub your son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool on the highway to the Fuller's Field, 4: and say to him, `Take heed, be quiet, do not fear, and do not let your heart be faint because of these two smoldering stumps of firebrands, at the fierce anger of Rezin and Syria and the son of Remali'ah. 5: Because Syria, with E'phraim and the son of Remali'ah, has devised evil against you, saying, 6: "Let us go up against Judah and terrify it, and let us conquer it for ourselves, and set up the son of Ta'be-el as king in the midst of it," 7: thus says the Lord GOD: It shall not stand, and it shall not come to pass.
8: For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin. (Within sixty-five years E'phraim will be broken to pieces so that it will no longer be a people.) 9: And the head of E'phraim is Sama'ria, and the head of Sama'ria is the son of Remali'ah. If you will not believe, surely you shall not be established.'" 10: Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz,
11: "Ask a sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven." 12: But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test." 13: And he said, "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

to be continued

Bs'd

God says that before the child of the young woman who is pregnant will grow up, the land of the two kings, Resin of Syria, and Pekah of Israel, will be deserted, that is devoid of people. Those two nations will be led into exile.
So this is a sign for king Achaz, who lived about 700 years before JC.

And the Bible tells us that this prophecy came true: "27: In the fifty-second year of Azari'ah king of Judah Pekah the son of Remali'ah began to reign over Israel in Sama'ria, and reigned twenty years. 28: And he did what was evil in the sight of the LORD; he did not depart from the sins of Jerobo'am the son of Nebat, which he made Israel to sin. 29: In the days of Pekah king of Israel Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria came and captured I'jon, A'bel-beth-ma'acah, Jan-o'ah, Kedesh, Hazor, Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naph'tali; and he carried the people captive to Assyria. 30: Then Hoshe'a the son of Elah made a conspiracy against Pekah the son of Remali'ah, and struck him down, and slew him, and reigned in his stead, in the twentieth year of Jotham the son of Uzzi'ah."
II Kings 15.

We see here that the population of Israel indeed went into exile, and that the land of king Pekah was deserted.

And here is what happened to Resin, the king of Syria:
"6: At that time the king of Edom recovered Elath for Edom, and drove the men of Judah from Elath; and the E'domites came to Elath, where they dwell to this day. 7: So Ahaz sent messengers to Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria, saying, "I am your servant and your son. Come up, and rescue me from the hand of the king of Syria and from the hand of the king of Israel, who are attacking me." 8: Ahaz also took the silver and gold that was found in the house of the LORD and in the treasures of the king's house, and sent a present to the king of Assyria. 9: And the king of Assyria hearkened to him; the king of Assyria marched up against Damascus, and took it, carrying its people captive to Kir, and he killed Rezin."
II Kings 16.



to be continued

Bs'd

So here we see that also the inhabitants of the land of King Resin went into exile, and also his land was deserted, in the days of Achaz.

So God gave a sign to Achaz.

In the days of Achaz.

About 700 years before JC.

So this prophecy has no bearing what so ever on the messiah, and NOWHERE in this prophecy is spoken about a virgin.

These are only misconceptions of the NT.

However, the NT brings this prophecy to Achaz as a messianic prophecy, see Matthew 1 "21: she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." 22: All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel".

So what the NT does here, is taking a text which does not speak about the messiah, ripping it out of context, mistranslating it, (is says "young woman", and not "virgin") and then presenting it to us as a messianic prophecy.

So one of the foundations of the Christian religion, the virgin birth, is based upon a mistranslated text which is ripped out of context and does NOT speak about the messiah.

(01-17-2014, 06:43 AM)Nachshon Wrote: Thank you for the references Smile

Kol Hakavod

Bs'd

My pleasure. Smile
#29
(01-17-2014, 04:15 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: Of the seven times that the word "almah" appears in the Tanach, the LXX translates is four times as "young woman", one time as "youth", and only two times as "virgin", one of those two times being Isaiah 7:14.

So the translators of the LXX knew very well what "almah" means; "young woman". So why does it state in Isaiah 7:14 "virgin"? Most likely Christian editing of the text.
Yes you are correct. In the Jewish Septuagint used in the 2nd. Temple period, the Bible was written in Greek which was the common language of that time. That Bible was written by Jewish sages, and translators, in which many of the wording, and by laws were influenced by the Babylonian exile, and traditions of Babylon ;submissiveness of the woman, etc. , actually Betulah was used in Isaiah 7:14, so Matthew read the word correctly.

In the Dead Sea scrolls Isaiah uses the word Alma; young woman to be wed, or just the word ; young woman. I believe the word is more of a universal interpretation that could be just as well mean Virgin, or young woman clothed in faithfulness to Hashems Word , a virgin to be kept faithful in chastity until her wedding. I think Alma fits much better than virgin. Mary was a virgin, and Yeshua was conceived in her womb without sexual relations; A miracle ;Immanuel ;G-D is with us..

I believe that 7:14 Immanuel ;refers more in it's 1rst. prophesy to the remnant of Israel, a faithful remnant survives who hears Hashems righteousness by believing the birth of the child is Hashems Word. In it's 1rst short term prophesy to Ahaz of Isaiah 7,that generation shall see the prophesy unveil, but I believe also the prophesy heralds the birth of Yeshua. The word Immanuel refers to YHVH; Immanuel G-D with us, and in us, which is an unending interaction throughout all Israel's time;or YHVH communing with Israel, refining and placing His Spirit within their hearts of the remnant.

In my study ,I believe the child of 7:14, and Isaiah 9:6 are linked, and the whole of the prophesy of 7:14 is not fully completed, until Israel is once again delivered from it's enemies. Israel is upon the brink of a horrendous war, that will bring tragic consequences of not allowing Hashems hedge of protection encircle Israel by not accepting Immanuel, who's Word was born in Yeshua.In the end, it will be He who saves Israel, and shows Israel who He is, and all Israel will be saved; Romans 11:26 John 20:26-29. I believe these verses of scripture show Hashems Loving Grace to His children of the 12 tribes of Jacob.

The Judaic members believe the prophesy does not repeat itself , but considering Israel still faces the same enemy then, as it does today, I would say; it definitely does.; the Assyrian blood still flows through the veins of the surrounding Arab states sworn to the eradication of Israel. The Hebrew Bible is the shadow of the New Testament, like it or not.

Many of the traditions and customs today, especially Easter, are greatly influenced by Constantine, placing pagan festivals over factual accounts of the Bible, not that the Bible was written in error, only mans conception of those words have varied. The Word can only be understood fully by understanding Hebrew, and Greek interpretations, and translations of the New Testament. I believe YHVH made it that way so that the Christian church must depend on Israel to understand their own faith, and vice versa, that we as believers in the G-D of Israel must embrace the children of Israel, and know they are the chosen of the Most High; to love them, and protect them when the world rejects them. Israel is partially blinded so the Gentiles salvation will be fulfilled[Romans 11:11-24].

Make no mistake, the eyes of the Jews shall be open when the fulfillment of the gentiles are complete, and millions of Jewish hearts shall receive Yeshua as Meshiach. Yeshua did not represent one man who saved a nation, but One G-D who has been with Israel from before their conception. Many Christians make the grave mistake of judging the Jews salvation, and by doing so place themselves under Judgment from YHVH. One day all will be complete, and we in Grace shall live with Immanuel forever. He has never left us, or Israel, only we have left Him. He stands forever faithful because His Love is not dependent on us, but we Him. We have much to learn from Israel, and them from us . Perhaps when one day the gentiles are complete, without division, and fully immersed into Hashems Perfect Word, the veil will be lifted and we as well into His Loving Arms.
Obey Torah and live!
Jesus Lives!
[Deuteronomy 18:18,19]


Mark Twain once said; History does not repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme.
Blessings
#30
(01-17-2014, 07:57 AM)Azriel Wrote: actually Betulah was used in Isaiah 7:14, so Matthew read the word correctly.

Bs'd

In Is 7:14 is NOT written "betulah", but "almah", which means "young woman".

Quote:In the Dead Sea scrolls Isaiah uses the word Alma;

In every Hebrew texts Isaiah uses "almah", and never "betulah".

Quote:young woman to be wed, or just the word ; young woman. I believe the word is more of a universal interpretation that could be just as well mean Virgin, or young woman clothed in faithfulness to Hashems Word , a virgin to be kept faithful in chastity until her wedding.

Maybe you believe so, but you won't find your definition in any dictionary.

"Almah" simply means "young woman", and nothing more. Translating that with "virgin" is simply wrong.

So like I said: One of the foundations of the Christian religion, the virgin birth, is based upon a mistranslated text which is ripped out of context and does NOT speak about the messiah.


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