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The "Shema", Deut 6:4, and the Absolute One G-d
#31
(12-16-2013, 11:43 AM)Tanachreader Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 11:26 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 10:52 AM)Tanachreader Wrote: To Nachshon your a lost puppy not believing John the Baptist and Jesus.
I like puppies Smile By the way, can you please explain why Hashem refers to Himself as a singular person/entity, 1 Kings 18:39, Deut 4:35?

How about why Hashem uses personal pronouns like "I", "Me", "My", "Mine", which are singular? Why not use a plural pronoun (Us, We, Our, etc.) since you think "He" is "We/Us"?

Why do we find that Hashem says in Ex 3:6,16, I am, which is in the singular? It would have been easy to say "We are".

The demons in Mark 5:9, Luke 8:30, say they have a common name (one name) though they are many. Why can't you find this type of support for your notion of the trinity in Tanakh?

No big deal to me. The Father has said to me "I AM" and so has the Lord Yeshua said to me "I AM".
Can you show me you arrive at "I" and "He", "Me" and "Mine", being plural?
#32
(12-16-2013, 11:56 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 11:43 AM)Tanachreader Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 11:26 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 10:52 AM)Tanachreader Wrote: To Nachshon your a lost puppy not believing John the Baptist and Jesus.
I like puppies Smile By the way, can you please explain why Hashem refers to Himself as a singular person/entity, 1 Kings 18:39, Deut 4:35?

How about why Hashem uses personal pronouns like "I", "Me", "My", "Mine", which are singular? Why not use a plural pronoun (Us, We, Our, etc.) since you think "He" is "We/Us"?

Why do we find that Hashem says in Ex 3:6,16, I am, which is in the singular? It would have been easy to say "We are".

The demons in Mark 5:9, Luke 8:30, say they have a common name (one name) though they are many. Why can't you find this type of support for your notion of the trinity in Tanakh?

No big deal to me. The Father has said to me "I AM" and so has the Lord Yeshua said to me "I AM".
Can you show me you arrive at "I" and "He", "Me" and "Mine", being plural?
Show me where "US" and "WE" refer to angels as our creator.
#33
(12-16-2013, 12:48 PM)Tanachreader Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 11:56 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 11:43 AM)Tanachreader Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 11:26 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 10:52 AM)Tanachreader Wrote: To Nachshon your a lost puppy not believing John the Baptist and Jesus.
I like puppies Smile By the way, can you please explain why Hashem refers to Himself as a singular person/entity, 1 Kings 18:39, Deut 4:35?

How about why Hashem uses personal pronouns like "I", "Me", "My", "Mine", which are singular? Why not use a plural pronoun (Us, We, Our, etc.) since you think "He" is "We/Us"?

Why do we find that Hashem says in Ex 3:6,16, I am, which is in the singular? It would have been easy to say "We are".

The demons in Mark 5:9, Luke 8:30, say they have a common name (one name) though they are many. Why can't you find this type of support for your notion of the trinity in Tanakh?

No big deal to me. The Father has said to me "I AM" and so has the Lord Yeshua said to me "I AM".
Can you show me how you arrive at "I" and "He", "Me" and "Mine", being plural?
Show me where "US" and "WE" refer to angels as our creator.
I never said angels were/are the Creator. I've said they were used in the process of creation. I guess I'll have to create a new thread to document upfront what I've already gone over with you.

Again, can you show me how you arrive at "I" and "He", "Me" and "Mine", being plural?
#34
(12-16-2013, 10:52 AM)Tanachreader Wrote: To Azriel I believe John the Apostle
Re:19:6: And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
"The Lord God omnipotent,", is referring to the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. Revelation 19:6
To Nachshon your a lost puppy not believing John the Baptist and Jesus.
TR. ;In our dividing thoughts that offset our words, there is no division in heart, if we know Jesus Christ is the Son of YHVH; Meshiach, and accept the gift of Salvation through Him. We shall both fail one another, but He shall never fail us. In One mind, One body, and One Spirit of YHVH. There would be no salvation without Yeshua. He is the fulfillment of Hashems Promise to Israel,and the world, and the Law. He is Lord. He within Yeshua is YHVH.
1 Corinthians 13:8
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Romans 10:9-10, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that G-D hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

John 3:15-16, "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For G-D so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Romans 4:5, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

1 John 5:20, "And we know that the Son of G-D is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

Romans 5:21, "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

John 10:28, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."



Ephesians 2:8-10, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of G-D: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which YHVH hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

No one man can contain all of YHVH, but YHVH can contain all of One man, that is Yeshua.
#35
(12-16-2013, 09:42 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 09:20 AM)Azriel Wrote: I do not demean the deity of Yeshua. Through Him lies the salvation for all mankind, given from His Father, Yeshua is the Meshiach of Israel given Authority from YHVH; He has risen above death , by the Hand of Almighty YHVH to give salvation to all men, as He in Heaven. but to say Jesus is G-D Omnipotent, harbors close to blasphemy, rather ignorance.
Sorry, Azriel. Just when I thought we are making progress towards understanding, you throw a curve ball. Yeshua is not a deity, but just a man.
A curve ball? Thankyou for the compliment. That's the mark of a professional pitcher!

He who is within Yeshua is the Deity; Is The Spirit of YHVH.Do you demean the Spirit of YHVH who lives within Yeshua.?
For He is the Deity of Yeshua.

You cannot worship the G-D of Moses, and reject the G-D of Yeshua, else you worship another god.

I think you just threw a foul ball.
#36
(12-17-2013, 07:32 AM)Azriel Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 09:42 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 09:20 AM)Azriel Wrote: I do not demean the deity of Yeshua. Through Him lies the salvation for all mankind, given from His Father, Yeshua is the Meshiach of Israel given Authority from YHVH; He has risen above death , by the Hand of Almighty YHVH to give salvation to all men, as He in Heaven. but to say Jesus is G-D Omnipotent, harbors close to blasphemy, rather ignorance.
Sorry, Azriel. Just when I thought we are making progress towards understanding, you throw a curve ball. Yeshua is not a deity, but just a man.
A curve ball? Thankyou for the compliment. That's the mark of a professional pitcher!

He who is within Yeshua is the Deity; Is The Spirit of YHVH.Do you demean the Spirit of YHVH who lives within Yeshua.?
For He is the Deity of Yeshua.

You cannot worship the G-D of Moses, and reject the G-D of Yeshua, else you worship another god.

I think you just threw a foul ball.
If Yeshua preached that he is not G-d, and the eternity of Torah, then we talking about the same G-d.

If you believe he preached the end of Torah upon his death, then we are talking about a different god. I just hit you a fly ball, let's see if you'll catch it. Smile
#37
Azriel Wrote:
"but to say Jesus is G-D Omnipotent, harbors close to blasphemy, rather ignorance."


Revelation 19:6 say's otherwise. "...the Lord God omnipotent reigneth."
The reason for their saying "hallelujah" follows,
for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth;
by whom is meant the Lord Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all, and God over all, blessed for ever, and is the Almighty; and though he was set up as King over the holy hill of Zion, and has reigned over the church in every age, and came as King into this world, though his kingdom was not of it, and at his resurrection was declared Lord and Christ, and his kingdom was then more manifest, and he has ever since displayed his kingly power in defending his church, and defeating the enemies of it; yet now will he reign more visibly and gloriously, his kingdom will be enlarged from one end of the earth to the other, and he will be King over all the earth, which will occasion great joy to Jews and Gentiles; see ( Psalms 47:1 Psalms 47:2 ) ( 97:1 ) and (See Gill on Revelation 11:17).

Re:19:1: And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Re:19:6: And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Re:19:16: And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Azriel Wrote:
Jesus did not make Jesus; YHVH made Jesus, else He is not man, or Meshiach.


The Spirit of Yeshua in the Human Body that was made by God is God. Your confused.
Incarnation
Jesus Christ the second person of the Trinity, God the Son and the Logos (Word), "became flesh" by being conceived in the womb of a woman, the Virgin Mary. Jesus, who is the non-created, second person of the Trinity took on a human body and nature and became both man and God. In the Bible its clearest teaching is in John 1:14: "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us."

I'm a Christian and that is what Christians teach. I don't know what you call yourself with what you believe?
#38
Tanachreader dagteline='1387298297' Wrote: Re:19:16: And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
This doesn't necessarily reflect who J-sus is, but who G-d is. If one of J-sus titles is Melkitzedek, this means "My King is Righteous" or "My King of Righteousness". The name reflects someone else, not J-sus himself.

J-sus was not born from a virgin either. Please read the thread "Yeshua, the virgin birth, and Isa 7:14". It is very informative starting from post #1.
#39
(12-17-2013, 07:47 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-17-2013, 07:32 AM)Azriel Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 09:42 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-16-2013, 09:20 AM)Azriel Wrote: I do not demean the deity of Yeshua. Through Him lies the salvation for all mankind, given from His Father, Yeshua is the Meshiach of Israel given Authority from YHVH; He has risen above death , by the Hand of Almighty YHVH to give salvation to all men, as He in Heaven. but to say Jesus is G-D Omnipotent, harbors close to blasphemy, rather ignorance.
Sorry, Azriel. Just when I thought we are making progress towards understanding, you throw a curve ball. Yeshua is not a deity, but just a man.
A curve ball? Thankyou for the compliment. That's the mark of a professional pitcher!

He who is within Yeshua is the Deity; Is The Spirit of YHVH.Do you demean the Spirit of YHVH who lives within Yeshua.?
For He is the Deity of Yeshua.

You cannot worship the G-D of Moses, and reject the G-D of Yeshua, else you worship another god.

I think you just threw a foul ball.
If Yeshua preached that he is not G-d, and the eternity of Torah, then we talking about the same G-d.

If you believe he preached the end of Torah upon his death, then we are talking about a different god. I just hit you a fly ball, let's see if you'll catch it. Smile
Jesus said;

Matthew 5:17-20;
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I think Jesus already caught that fly ball!

To think a sin, is to sin. Do you sin? Only the Spirit of YHVH shaping our hearts and minds , and leading us in the path of His Righteousness within us, is Worthy.
The Covenant of Israel is by Faith and Promise in Grace, lest Israel would cease to exist. Jeremiah 31:37.

Jesus is the fulfillment of that Promise.[Genesis 22:8]

A promise cannot be received, without receiving it!

The Commandments of Sinai in Torah is unending.
Traditions of men change; The Torah does not!
Shema Yisrael

(12-17-2013, 09:38 AM)Tanachreader Wrote: Azriel Wrote:
"but to say Jesus is G-D Omnipotent, harbors close to blasphemy, rather ignorance." Jesus is G-D's Son, and not the G-D the Father Omnipotent. Jesus was G-D's Word made flesh , and son of man


Revelation 19:6 say's otherwise. "...the Lord God omnipotent reigneth."
Re:19:16: And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Azriel Wrote:
Jesus did not make Jesus; YHVH made Jesus, else He is not man, or Meshiach.


The Spirit of Yeshua in the Human Body that was made by God is God. Your confused.

I'm a Christian and that is what Christians teach. I don't know what you call yourself with what you believe?
No one man can contain all of our One G-D, but YHVH our G-D can contain all of One man, that is Jesus.

I only find in scripture that Jesus is the Son of G-D, not G-D the Father. If Jesus did not have Free Will, then He was a angel and not the man Meshiach of Israel. Jesus is One with the Father because Jesus gave every part of His own will, to be G-D's Will ,by free will. Every Word He spoke was Hashems Voice, only Hashems pure Righteousness within Jesus' sinless spirit, heart, and mind in the flesh of man,could make His death of Righteous Atonement for all Israel ,and the world.

One day when Israel awakens from their slumber they will be shown truth, by truth, and all Israel will be saved. Israel shall never be scattered again or ever driven from their Holy Land, because the Price has been paid for their ransom, and iniquity. We are about to see the Power of YHVH once again shake this world from it's axis when all nations come against Israel. These lands, and Great nations shall fall, but Israel shall remain.
Watch Israel, for it is the clock of all mankind that is in the final minutes of it's final hour leading us into the New age of man. Thank Heaven for Grace . else none of us would make it. Thank Jesus for what He has given for us!.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit. Likewise, you were called to the one hope of your calling.

1 Corinthians 10:17
Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

If anyone didn't realize, that does include Israel!What do I call myself?
It's not what you say you are, but what you do is who you are!
There is One Father, His Word, and Spirit. Jesus is the Son of G-D, son of man.

Luke 22:42 Father, if you be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but yours, be done.

Jesus had free Will, it is what separates man from angels. Jesus was the first man, likened to Adam, made without sin, to become a New Kingdom of mankind; of Israel eternal, for all men who choose the Gift of our Loving G-D.
Is it worth so much to divide ourselves in the body, and spirit on theology differences?. Is not Grace easy, by believing in our hearts that Jesus gave His Life for Israel , and the world; for us that believe, in His Name ,and believe that Jesus rose from death, to bring the fulfillment of man's Creation eternal of Hashems Promised Kingdom; To believe in the Lamb of G-D;[Genesis 22:8] to believe in G-D's son for our only salvation in YHVH.
If Salvation is as complicated as we have made it in understanding, who could find it?

Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.


We must stand with Israel, and learn from Israel ,through Hashems Spirit that guides in the path of His Glory, and Love.

How much we do not understand that Israel holds the key to our understanding the Bible as Christians; The Key to the Grace of all mankind lies in Israel.
Isaiah 1:18
#40
(12-19-2013, 07:06 AM)Azriel Wrote: Jesus is the fulfillment of that Promise.[Genesis 22:8]
I don't think this was a prophecy or a promise. The answer was in Gen 22:13.


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