Bible Options Bible Study Software
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Got Born Again?
#21
(12-18-2013, 12:41 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-18-2013, 12:33 PM)HumblePetitioner Wrote:
(12-18-2013, 12:27 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-18-2013, 12:03 PM)HumblePetitioner Wrote: Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
Joh 1:11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.
Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Interesting. Is there a verse in Tanakh that says messiah is the Creator, and that multiple people were involved in creation, Isa 37:16, Isa 44:24, Eccl 4:11, Psalms 83:18, Psalms 86:10, Neh 9:6?

I think you agree that YHVH is the only creator (but maybe not that He actually created anything) John 1:1-3 declares that 'the Word' was (is) the creator God and that there was only one 'person' involved in all things created - there were no outside agents involved i.e. angels
You didn't answer the question - find me a verse in Tanakh that says messiah is the Creator and that more than one Creator was involved.

You should go back and read what I said about angels. They are not the Creator(s).

you ask the wrong question and I am not obligated to give you any answers ...

Mic 5:2 But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.

Messiah is 'from of old, from ancient days' His is the Eternal One come in the flesh - He is 'God with us' - He is Jesus.
#22
(12-18-2013, 01:15 PM)HumblePetitioner Wrote: you ask the wrong question and I am not obligated to give you any answers ...
I understand why you don't want to give an answer. You're right, you're not obligated.

(12-18-2013, 01:15 PM)HumblePetitioner Wrote: Mic 5:2 But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.
Since David comes from Bethlehem, and messiah comes from Judah, Gen 49:10, and kings were promised from the loins of Abraham and Jacob, Gen 17:6, Gen 35:11, it's easy to see that the promises of messiah are from of old, ancient days.
#23
(12-18-2013, 01:31 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-18-2013, 01:15 PM)HumblePetitioner Wrote: you ask the wrong question and I am not obligated to give you any answers ...
I understand why you don't want to give an answer. You're right, you're not obligated.

(12-18-2013, 01:15 PM)HumblePetitioner Wrote: Mic 5:2 But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.
Since David comes from Bethlehem, and messiah comes from Judah, Gen 49:10, and kings were promised from the loins of Abraham and Jacob, Gen 17:6, Gen 35:11, it's easy to see that the promises of messiah are from of old, ancient days.

the word 'to come forth' is used for both His actual coming from Bethlehem and His actual coming 'from of old, from ancient days' - this is an absolutely clear statement that YHVH was 'coming forth' in the flesh as 'God with us'.
#24
(12-18-2013, 01:47 PM)HumblePetitioner Wrote: the word 'to come forth' is used for both His actual coming from Bethlehem and His actual coming 'from of old, from ancient days' - this is an absolutely clear statement that YHVH was 'coming forth' in the flesh as 'God with us'.
You're making things up. Nothing in these verses says Hashem coming into flesh.
#25
(12-18-2013, 01:53 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-18-2013, 01:47 PM)HumblePetitioner Wrote: the word 'to come forth' is used for both His actual coming from Bethlehem and His actual coming 'from of old, from ancient days' - this is an absolutely clear statement that YHVH was 'coming forth' in the flesh as 'God with us'.
You're making things up. Nothing in these verses says Hashem coming into flesh.

whatever is coming forth from Bethlehem is 'of flesh' and whatever is coming forth 'from of old, from ancient days' is YHVH.
#26
(12-18-2013, 02:04 PM)HumblePetitioner Wrote:
(12-18-2013, 01:53 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(12-18-2013, 01:47 PM)HumblePetitioner Wrote: the word 'to come forth' is used for both His actual coming from Bethlehem and His actual coming 'from of old, from ancient days' - this is an absolutely clear statement that YHVH was 'coming forth' in the flesh as 'God with us'.
You're making things up. Nothing in these verses says Hashem coming into flesh.

whatever is coming forth from Bethlehem is 'of flesh' and whatever is coming forth 'from of old, from ancient days' is YHVH.
Nothing indicates G-d is flesh, try again.
#27
Nachshon Wrote:It’s a phrase used by Christians to mean that one has the Holy Spirit in them and are new creations in Christ. But where does this teaching come from and are some Christians really born again in line with Yeshua’s words and with what the Tanakh presents? Is this teaching an original Christian teaching?

Man both before the fall of Adam and after the fall of Adam was created to receive God Himself into his being. That means in addition to the natural life man has by creation, for God to fulfill His eternal plan desired man have in addition the divine uncreated life which is God's life.

Many Christians think that sinners need to be born again because they are sinners in need of salvation. And that is true. However, Adam was placed before "the tree of life" in his state of innocency. This tree of life signified God Himself to be taken INTO man.

My point is that the New Testament new birth is really a return to the original eternal plan of God that man take into himself God himself for a living union, mingling and mutual indwelling of God and man.

Adam fell before he received the life of God.

"And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever - " (Gen 3:22)

Nachshon Wrote:We find this NT teaching/concept in John 3:3-10. A key part to understanding this concept is that Yeshua is addressing Nicodemas, a master of the law. Why would Yeshua question Nicodemus about this subject if it wasn’t a matter regarding the law or Torah? Think about this.

Nicodemus is not described specifically as a master of the law but as a teacher of Israel. I would regard this to include more teaching than just the law of Moses.

I think that the Son of God implied that the genuine teachers of Israel had revelation from God. They did not simply teach by rote but had received enlightenment from God's revelation expressly to them.

Notice that Ezekiel said that the word of God came expressly to him (Ezek. 1:3)

"The word of Jehovah came expressly to Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi ... "

Jesus said of Nicodemus - "You are a teacher of Israel, and you do not know these things?" (v.10)

I could be wrong, but I think the implication of Jesus is that the real genuine TEACHERS of Israel have not only the letter of Scripture but direct revelation from God. Jesus the Son of God and John the Baptist were both men who had God's express revelation. So when Jesus mentions "we" in verse 11 He was speaking of teachers of Israel with direct revelation from His Father.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, We [the genuine teachers of Israel[/b] speak that which we know and testify of that which we have seen, and yet you do not receive our testimony." (v.11)

John the Baptist and Christ were genuine teachers of Israel with God's express revelation to testify to. Nicodemus though a "ruler of the Jews" (v.1) was a teacher of Israel (v.11) only in a way of tradition and facade. He was in need of real revelation from the Father in order to be a real teacher of Israel.

That has been my take on verse 11 for some time now.

Nachshon Wrote:We find that since the creation of Adam and the world, mankind has been responsible for following law.

The only commandment given to Adam was to NOT eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He was warned about not taking INTO himself the wrong "food."

Eating is a matter of receiving something into your being that becomes a part of you. "You are what you eat" in this sense.

Adam was not given commandment even how to worship God, let alone how to pray, how to not commit adultery, how to not steal, how to not lie, how to not murder, how to keep the Sabbath day. He was only told NOT to eat of a certain forbidden tree - the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

A possible exception is that man was told in chapter one what to do with the earth -

"And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of heaven and over every living thing that moves upon the earth." (Gen. 1:28)

You cannot find God teaching man about the law of Moses in Genesis one or two. You have God warning man only about what he eats. And two particular trees in the garden are of paramount importance - the tree of life representing God's life and God's will and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which turns out to be Satan's way of independence from God and death.

The born anew event spoken of by Jesus in John chapter 3 is a recapitulation to Adam eating from the tree of life to receive God into him for a union of God and man.

There is no teaching about the Law of Moses before the fall of man. But there is the original purpose of God to dispense Himself into man that man may live in union with the uncreated life of God.

Nachshon Wrote:We find in Gen 2:16, Gen 3:3, man was commanded to obey and refrain from eating from the tree in the middle of the garden, the tree of knowledge of good and evil. We know the rest of the story.

I agree with this. Except I would say the way it is written suggests that central to the garden was the tree of life which signified the centrality of God's own life in all creation. Man the innocent and very good creation (1:31) should choose to take God into himself for the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose. This is the same as Jesus saying "You must be born again."

Here is Genesis saying the tree of life was in the middle of the garden - "And out of the ground Jehovah God caused to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, as well as the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." (Gen. 2:9)

The woman however, in the process of being tempted, suggested that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in the middle (3:3). But I think she is being misled.

If anyone disagrees, I doubt that the very middle of the garden would display the tree of Satan and of death which was forbidden. It was there, no doubt. But I would rather believe that the will of God was central to the garden rather than the death and sin delivering tree of knowledge.

For certain in the end of the Bible the tree of life is central in the New Jerusalem. No mention of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is mentioned in Revelation. Its end is in the lake of fire.

Nachshon Wrote:Then, we find that the world was destroyed in the flood because of its corruption, Gen 6:11. Man moved further away from obedience to G-d. Noah is saved and told to obey laws regarding relationhips with mankind and food, Gen 9. Again, a command to return to obedience to G-d, a rebirth of the world and mankind.

Okay. The man was constituted with a sin nature after eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We see from Genesis 1:31 where God saw all was very good to Genesis 6:5 when He beheld the depravity of man, a continuous downward decline into judgement.

Though some men made a turn back towards God as life - Abel, Enosh, Enoch, Noah to name some people before the flood who walked with God.

My time is limited this morning. But generally, I point out that to be born again or born anew or born from above or born of the Spirit, in the Bible is God's plan from the creation of man. This receiving of God as life is definitely depicted in Adam and Eve being before the tree of life.

Before the fall to fulfill God's eternal purpose man needed the life of God dispensed into his created vessel.

After the fall man needs first redemption through the blood of the atonement of Christ and then as before, the divine life of God dispensed into him.

We should not think of being born again and only remedial to solve man's problem of being a sinner. That it does. However if man had never become a sinner he still would have needed to receive the eternal life of God for the fulfillment of God's purpose to be one with man.

After man got infested with the sin nature, the way to the tree of life was cut off to him UNTIL the eternal redemption through Christ could be accomplished in the New Testament times.

In the Old Testament you have the ANTICIPATED redemption of Christ with much symbolism in the Levitical offerings. These foreshadowed Christ's redemption on His cross.

In the New Testament you move from the ANTICIPTED redemption to the ACCOMPLISHED redemption performed on Calvary.

All the law keepers having received the Law of Moses were saved by faith in the ANTICIPATED redemption. They were actually believing in the Messiah's redemption to COME, probably not realizing it.

The last scene of eternity future shows the redeemed, having their robes washed (in the blood of Jesus) and having right to the tree of life for entering into the city of God forever.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Blessed are those who wash their robes that they may have right to the tree of lifeand may enter by the gates into the city." (Rev.22:13,14)


The build the city of God man is mingled with God. To build the living temple of God man takes into himself the divine and eternal life of the God as "food."
#28
(12-30-2013, 08:49 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: Man both before the fall of Adam and after the fall of Adam was created to receive God Himself into his being. That means in addition to the natural life man has by creation, for God to fulfill His eternal plan desired man have in addition the divine uncreated life which is God's life.
Before the fall, man had not sinned. And yet man did not have G-d in himself as the language in Gen 1-2 shows G-d outside of him, so to say.

(12-30-2013, 08:49 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: Nicodemus is not described specifically as a master of the law but as a teacher of Israel. I would regard this to include more teaching than just the law of Moses.
The law of Moses is known to be Hashem's Torah. Do you think Moses made these up? Do you refer to Paul's letters as his own, or the word of G-d?

(12-30-2013, 08:49 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: Notice that Ezekiel said that the word of God came expressly to him (Ezek. 1:3)
Interestingly enough, the Jews at Har Sinai saw and received the revelation/word of G-d, Ex 20.

(12-30-2013, 08:49 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: I could be wrong, but I think the implication of Jesus is that the real genuine TEACHERS of Israel have not only the letter of Scripture but direct revelation from God. Jesus the Son of God and John the Baptist were both men who had God's express revelation. So when Jesus mentions "we" in verse 11 He was speaking of teachers of Israel with direct revelation from His Father.
You are wrong. As I said above, Jews did receive the direct revelation from G-d.

(12-30-2013, 08:49 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: The only commandment given to Adam was to NOT eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He was warned about not taking INTO himself the wrong "food."
This little commandment contains so much in it - obedience, love, idolatry (making oneself G-d), kosher, etc. After all, love of G-d is keeping His commandments, Josh 22:5.

(12-30-2013, 08:49 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: Eating is a matter of receiving something into your being that becomes a part of you. "You are what you eat" in this sense.
Deut 8:3

(12-30-2013, 08:49 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: Okay. The man was constituted with a sin nature after eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
So, we have no freedom of will?

(12-30-2013, 08:49 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: My time is limited this morning. But generally, I point out that to be born again or born anew or born from above or born of the Spirit, in the Bible is God's plan from the creation of man. This receiving of God as life is definitely depicted in Adam and Eve being before the tree of life.
If you're born from the spirit of G-d, you keep the Torah/laws, Ezek 36:26-27.
#29
Nachshon Wrote:Before the fall, man had not sinned. And yet man did not have G-d in himself as the language in Gen 1-2 shows G-d outside of him, so to say.

That is what I wrote. You are now saying what I said.


Feedmysheep Wrote:Nicodemus is not described specifically as a master of the law but as a teacher of Israel. I would regard this to include more teaching than just the law of Moses.

Nachshon responds:

Nachson Wrote:The law of Moses is known to be Hashem's Torah. Do you think Moses made these up? Do you refer to Paul's letters as his own, or the word of G-d?

My comment does not devalue the Law of Moses as not being God's commands.
So I don't regard this counter as significant in this matter.

Anyway, have it as you like. John says Nicodemus was a "ruler of the Jews".
And Jesus inquired if he was a "teacher of Israel".
Have it as you wish.

Nicodemus was a secretive believer in Christ most likely (John 7:50;19:39,40) .
Certainly Nicodemus was an expert in the Law.


Feedmysheep Wrote:Notice that Ezekiel said that the word of God came expressly to him (Ezek. 1:3)

Nachshon responds:

Nachshon Wrote:Interestingly enough, the Jews at Har Sinai saw and received the revelation/word of G-d, Ex 20.

No problem.
Moving on and sticking with the main points of the new birth.

FMS Wrote:I could be wrong, but I think the implication of Jesus is that the real genuine TEACHERS of Israel have not only the letter of Scripture but direct revelation from God. Jesus the Son of God and John the Baptist were both men who had God's express revelation. So when Jesus mentions "we" in verse 11 He was speaking of teachers of Israel with direct revelation from His Father.

Nachshon Wrote:You are wrong. As I said above, Jews did receive the direct revelation from G-d.

Yes the Jews at Mt. Sinai had vision of God and heard God. And some of them wanted to make a golden calf and return to Egypt.

Do you believe those were qualified to be "teachers of Israel" ?
If I recall rightly, the Levites went through the crowd and slew many of these rebels.

Jesus question "You are a teacher of Israel and you do not know these things?" indicates that compared to Himself and John the Baptist at least, Nicodemus should have known these matters of the new birth by God from revelation.

Sure, all the Israelites had some seeing at Mt. Sinai. We cannnot say that all of them saw the depths of truth in what they saw and heard. Otherwise some of them would not have sought to worship the golden calf and return back to Egypt.

Obviously, Nicodemus, as his name even implies, was a noble leader among the Jews.
He did after all risk career to come to Jesus by night, speak up for a fair trial, and risk life to have the body of Jesus properly laid to rest. And this was more than what the twelve disciples had the courage to do!

The inclusion of the acts of Nicodemus argue for the veracity of the New Testament because the account would be entirely embarrassing to the apostles had the Gospel been false propaganda. Why would they purposely record that they were too afraid to bury Jesus while a member of the Sanhedrin was not ?

Anyway, back to being born from above. Is it God's truth or man's invention ?
It is God's truth spoken from the mouth of the Son of God.


FMS Wrote:The only commandment given to Adam was to NOT eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He was warned about not taking INTO himself the wrong "food."

Nachshon Wrote:This little commandment contains so much in it - obedience, love, idolatry (making oneself G-d), kosher, etc. After all, love of G-d is keeping His commandments, Josh 22:5.

It can hardly be overstated that Genesis contains many crucial "seeds" of truth which are developed further in the whole Bible.

And in this initial "seed" truth of man's relationship with his Creator, we can see that God is to indwell man. That is why He presented Himself to Adam in the form of food. This is the same God who put terribly important significance to each of the articles in the tabernacle. The show bread, the incense altar, the propitiation place, the cheribim of glory, the lampstands, etc. etc. all carried a divine significance. And to interact with them was a serious matter.

How much more would God put significance to what He wished in the creation of man. A tree of life may be quite mysterious to us. And Moses mentions it in a very matter of fact way as if the reader should have known something about it.

God presented Himself before His creation signified as fruit to be eaten.
Satan, who always wants to run ahead of God and offer a counterfeit of God's plan, was also represented there in a tree of death, a tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The choice was really taking in God or taking in Satan. Adam was in the middle with the free will to choose. In that state between two sources he was innocent and neutral. And nothing was commanded of him except to be careful what he ate.

I do not imply that the created man had no feeling of love or devotion towards his Maker.
But he is not commanded to do anything except not eat of the forbidden source which would bring him into death, rebellion, alienation from God, and enmity against God. And from that state he required salvation once he chose wrongly.

And choosing wrongly immediately Adam was expelled from the sphere of God's paradise. And God had a threefold demand upon his creature before he could partake of the life of God signified by the tree of life.

The cherubim representing the glory of God stood between man and the life of God.
The flame of the sword representing the holiness of God also stood between man and divine life.
The sword itself representing the righteousness of God was the last obstacle.

The sin poisoned man has joined the rebellion of Satan. And he now falls short of the glory of God and the holiness of God and the righteousness of God.

The Apostle Paul rightly says that fallen man is "estranged [or alienated] from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) .

This alienation from the life of God began at the time of the expulsion of Genesis 3:22-24.

And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever -

Therefore Jehovah God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to work the ground from which he was taken.

So He drove the man out, and at the east of the garden of Eden He placed the cherubim and a flaming sword which turned in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life. (Gen. 3:22-24)


Man was from that point "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) .
The rest of the Bible concerns God working to bring man back to the right to partake of the life of God. And it is Jesus Christ who finally meets the demands of God's glory, God's holiness, and God's righteousness to recover man's right to the eternal life of God signified in the tree of life.


FMS Wrote:Eating is a matter of receiving something into your being that becomes a part of you. "You are what you eat" in this sense.

Nachshon Wrote:Deut 8:3

I have no problem at all with Deut. 8:3. The one and only genuine theocratic nation on this earth is Israel. And the eternal purpose of God is so profound, Israel was privileged to have a position of receiving much symbolism and pointers to the Anticipated redemption.

There is no question in my mind that the continued theme of God seeking to dispense His life into man was acted and re-enacted many times and in many ways in the history of the theocratic nation of Israel.

But while we are on the subject of manna from heaven, its significance is Jesus who was the true bread out of heaven. This is elaborated in John 6 and 7.

"Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, that anyone may eat of it and not die.

I am the living bread which came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever.

And the bread which I will give is My flesh, given for the life of the world.... Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life within yourselves." (John 6:50,51,53)


Now this reference is not intended to be a full expounding of John 6. And I expect that Nashshon will find many points to object to. Some of that will be because I only briefly allude to Jesus pointing to Himself as the antitype of the manna that fed the Israelites in the wilderness.

Very much needs to be said about this. And leaving much out will give rise to objections of different kinds from Nachshon.

The main point here is that Jesus kept the theme of eating God as food -

"As the living Father has sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me shall live because of Me."

Man is wondering in the wilderness of his fallen sin damaged soul. Man needs his human spirit (distinct from the human soul) to receive the life of Christ. And in receiving Christ man receives the Father through Whom Christ also lived. This is the triune God moving to dispense eternal life into man as what God desired from Genesis.

I briefly add that the emphatic mentioning of eating Christ's flesh and drinking His blood may be regarded as God Himself telling the world that they must believe His incarnation. Emphatically, God has clothed Himself in flesh and blood. We have to see this and receive this - Jesus Christ as God become a Man Savior. This is a step in God dispensing His life into us.

Feedmysheep Wrote:Okay. The man was constituted with a sin nature after eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Quote:So, we have no freedom of will?

No one is coercing you to not receive Jesus Christ.
No one is coercing me to believe into Christ.

God has not usurped the human will.
You can decide to receive Christ.
You can decide to reject Christ.
God will not usurp your freedom of will to choose.

We could not choose to escape some of the consequences of Adam's transgression.
But we can choose to be saved.
And we can choose to be justified through works of the law.
But by works of the law shall not flesh be justified.
And without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Some people do not know man.
And they do not know God.
They do not realize the extent of the holiness, righteousness, and glory of God.
And they do not realize that the gulf between us and God could only be bridged by the Savior.

This is not an excuse to be lawless as some will assume.
This is the biblical foundation for needing eternal redemption to be brought back to the life of God, to live through Him.

Feedmysheep Wrote:My time is limited this morning. But generally, I point out that to be born again or born anew or born from above or born of the Spirit, in the Bible is God's plan from the creation of man. This receiving of God as life is definitely depicted in Adam and Eve being before the tree of life.

Nachshon Wrote:If you're born from the spirit of G-d, you keep the Torah/laws, Ezek 36:26-27.
Walk before me and be perfect!
Proverbs 24:16

If you are born again you must learn to walk by the Spirit. And as Paul wrote the just requirement of the law is fulfilled by those who walk by the Spirit Who has united with the human spirit.

"For that which the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son in the likeness of the flesh of sin and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh,

That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit." (Rom. 8:3-4)


This does not mean the Christian has no need of Christ's eternal redemption. It means that the new birth is only the beginning of a new life. It is not the end in itself. It is a birth for a growth and maturity to take place.

And what is the growth, maturity and development which should follow the new birth? It is to walk step by step abiding in Jesus Christ who is now one with the believer's innermost spirit. And in so walking in the realm of the dispensed Spirit of Christ, he sees another law spontaneously operating in him called "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"

"There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death." (v.1,2)

Now the law of sin and of death is not the law of Moses. Please let no one misunderstand.
The law of sin and of death is that sin nature driving man to be unable to live fully according to God's commands. That is elaborated on in the previous chapter 7 of Romans.

Paul delighted in the law of God as man should. But he saw in his members another stronger sin nature capturing and dragging him down.

To that extent we do have a freedom problem. But we do not have a freedom problem when God offers to us redemption and salvation in the Son of God.

So yes, Nachshon, I agree that we have somewhat of a freedom problem. But we have a God sent remedy which we are free to avail ourselves of.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)

So we need to first be redeemed and regenerated in the new birth.

Then we need to "grow again" following our being "born again".
This is a life long matter of development and maturation.

We need to "walk by the Spirit" . And this was prophesied by Jeremiah. I would have to revisit Ezekiel. I think Ezekiel also speaks of a new heart or new spirit. But I would have to double check.

Because this reply was concise and limited, I already anticipate that Nachshon will find much to object to in one or two sentence contrary comments as his custom is.
#30
(12-30-2013, 10:45 PM)Feedmysheep Wrote: Do you believe those were qualified to be "teachers of Israel" ?
If I recall rightly, the Levites went through the crowd and slew many of these rebels.
Some not all were involved in the golden calf. But, the point is Jews have received the revelation striaght from G-d without the need for J-sus.

(12-30-2013, 10:45 PM)Feedmysheep Wrote: And in this initial "seed" truth of man's relationship with his Creator, we can see that God is to indwell man. That is why He presented Himself to Adam in the form of food. This is the same God who put terribly important significance to each of the articles in the tabernacle. The show bread, the incense altar, the propitiation place, the cheribim of glory, the lampstands, etc. etc. all carried a divine significance. And to interact with them was a serious matter.
G-d no where says He is physical. Hashem's word/law dwells in man when we follow His words.

(12-30-2013, 10:45 PM)Feedmysheep Wrote: I briefly add that the emphatic mentioning of eating Christ's flesh and drinking His blood may be regarded as God Himself telling the world that they must believe His incarnation. Emphatically, God has clothed Himself in flesh and blood. We have to see this and receive this - Jesus Christ as God become a Man Savior. This is a step in God dispensing His life into us.
Do you take this literally, to eat J-sus flesh and blood?

(12-30-2013, 10:45 PM)Feedmysheep Wrote: If you are born again you must learn to walk by the Spirit. And as Paul wrote the just requirement of the law is fulfilled by those who walk by the Spirit Who has united with the human spirit.
But the spirit in Ezek 36:26-27 says you keep the law. It's not done away with.

(12-30-2013, 10:45 PM)Feedmysheep Wrote: So yes, Nachshon, I agree that we have somewhat of a freedom problem. But we have a God sent remedy which we are free to avail ourselves of.
There isn't a freedom problem. We choose to sin, Gen 4:7. This has been the problem since the beginning. But, we are not born with sin otherwise we have no freedom of will.

(12-30-2013, 10:45 PM)Feedmysheep Wrote: "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)
What is truth? Psalms 119:142.


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)