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Gen 1:26 - What is going on here?
#21
(01-12-2014, 09:13 AM)Azriel Wrote: Thankyou, The Lord has changed me from a broken man into a vessel for Him, not by necessity, but by His Love that lives within me. Charity is the heart of YHVH within us.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16.
I can't argue against good deeds Smile
#22
Rainbow 
(01-12-2014, 09:27 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 09:13 AM)Azriel Wrote: Thankyou, The Lord has changed me from a broken man into a vessel for Him, not by necessity, but by His Love that lives within me. Charity is the heart of YHVH within us.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16.
I can't argue against good deeds Smile
Jesus said;
A Pharisee who was a lawyer, asked Yeshua a question, testing Him, and saying,
36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Matt. 22:34-40

I hope one day all men may find peace towards one another.I once was not a nice person, and my life was all about taking what I could, without regards for others, or their feelings. If I hadn't been broken I never would have found such Great Love YHVH gives through His Spirit, that changes the darkest night into pure Light. I could never thank Him enough for all He has given me.

When a person truly receives the Holy Spirit, our hearts are changed, our whole lives are changed , and we are given what no man, or rule, work ,or Law, or money can give ; That is Love. Changing Love that gives us the desire to follow His Law, not of necessity, but by desire.
I'm not saying I am perfect, I still have so much to learn for the rest of my life, but He that lives within me is perfect who guides my path!

I think the word Christian has become a bitter taste in the mouth of many Jews , by men using Jesus Name for their own purposes of evil and greed. But still it was Christian leaders of nations that helped Israel become a Nation. The U.S. was the first nation to recognize Israel as a nation, and supplied Israel with vast arrays of financial, and weaponry to become what Israel is today.

I'm sorry to say the U.S. leaders are now evil, and Judeo/Christianity is being erased from what made the U.S. Great ,and the leaders now wish harm against Israel, to divide her, and side with Israel's enemies. There will be a cost for what they are doing. The U'S. only exists today because of blessing Israel. Soon the U.S. will become a third world nation. If you have a chance to move to Israel, I wouldn't hesitate , this country has only seen a taste of what YHVH has planned for this country. Peace seems so far away, but it is there; In the Love of the G-D of Israel I have found through His Son Jesus Christ.
Shalom
#23
Bs'd

Genesis 1:26; "Let us make man" If anybody finds in a text the word "us", would any normal person assume that it refers to one person with a multi-personality disorder? Of course not.

But why then, when Christians see the word "us" in the Bible, do they think that?

Gen 1:26 is used as a 'proof' that there is more than one God, or one God who is not one, eventhough the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God who is one. and despite the fact that there are several other valid explanations for the plural word "us". One explanation is that it is a majestic plural as used by kings. Another possible explanation is that God was talking to the angels.

Some Christians try to refute the last argument by saying that the angels didn't create. They point to Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." They say: 'God was the creator, and not the angels.' However, it is a given in Jewish law that an emissary is equal to the one who sends him. When a Jewish man marries a woman through an agent, the legal effect is the same as when he marries her personally. A good Biblical example of this is to be found in Genesis 19 where is spoken about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. God sent two angels to destroy the cities, the angels said to Lot in verse 13: "For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it." Upon this Lot says to his sons in law: "Up, get out of this place; for the LORD is about to destroy the city." Lot didn't say: "The angels are going to destroy the city" He said: "The LORD (Y-H-W-H in the Hebrew text) is going to destroy the city". And in verse 29 it is written: "So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley...." So the angels were send by God to destroy the cities, but God is considered to be the one who did it, because He was the one who sent them. So why shouldn't the same hold true for the creation?

But one way or the other, no plural created man. Look in Genesis 5:1; "When God created man ..." In Hebrew this is: "bara Elohiem adam" Here the verb "to create", in Hebrew "bara", is in the singular, indicating clearly that Elohiem who created man is one. The same goes for the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The word created is here written in the singular; it says "bara". If God was a plural, it should have been "baru".

BUT, back to the pronouns, Y-H-W-H says the following:

Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

It says "I" am Y-H-W-H. And, as we all know, "I" is singular, and not plural, and therefore no three persons in Y-H-W-H. Otherwise He would have said: "WE are Y-H-W-H."

But no such thing, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H".

No trinity.

Another example of a pronoun:

Nehemiah 9:6 “You alone are Y-H-W-H.”

As we see, it says that YOU, in the Hebrew singular, not plural are Y-H-W-H.

Again, no YOU, plural, are Y-H-W-H, but YOU singular, are Y-H-W-H.

So no three persons in God.

Another one:

Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Clear what? It doesn't say: “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: WE are the first and WE are the last; apart from US there is no God.

No such a thing, it is all SINGULAR.

Another one:

Joel 2:27 “Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am Y-H-W-H your God, and that there is no other;”

Again, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H", and not "WE are Y-H-W-H" Such a thing simply doesn't exist.

I can go on and on with this, but these examples suffice. There is NO plurality in God.

And the word "us" when God speaks to the angels, does not imply otherwise.
#24
(01-20-2014, 05:08 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: Bs'd

Genesis 1:26; "Let us make man" If anybody finds in a text the word "us", would any normal person assume that it refers to one person with a multi-personality disorder? Of course not.

But why then, when Christians see the word "us" in the Bible, do they think that?

Gen 1:26 is used as a 'proof' that there is more than one God, or one God who is not one, eventhough the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God who is one. and despite the fact that there are several other valid explanations for the plural word "us". One explanation is that it is a majestic plural as used by kings. Another possible explanation is that God was talking to the angels.
A rabbi once discussed this issue, lost in the archives,that YHVH became plural in Genesis 3:22 because of mans separation from YHVH by sin; Saying man is no longer one with his Creator , and us in verse 22;YHVH speaks in the plural form ; Man has become one of us is rather awkwardly unfitting in the verse in the context of G-D speaking to the angels would indicate YHVH and the angels sinned as well. I believe there is One G-D, not 2, or 3 but One.

Do you believe the angels have their own minds to make a decision to sin or not? If so what ,is the difference between man and the angels, other than sin?

(01-20-2014, 05:08 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: Bs'd

Genesis 1:26; "Let us make man" If anybody finds in a text the word "us", would any normal person assume that it refers to one person with a multi-personality disorder? Of course not.

But why then, when Christians see the word "us" in the Bible, do they think that?

Gen 1:26 is used as a 'proof' that there is more than one God, or one God who is not one, eventhough the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God who is one. and despite the fact that there are several other valid explanations for the plural word "us". One explanation is that it is a majestic plural as used by kings. Another possible explanation is that God was talking to the angels.

But one way or the other, no plural created man. Look in Genesis 5:1; "When God created man ..." In Hebrew this is: "bara Elohiem adam" Here the verb "to create", in Hebrew "bara", is in the singular, indicating clearly that Elohiem who created man is one. The same goes for the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The word created is here written in the singular; it says "bara". If God was a plural, it should have been "baru".
You give a lot of speculation. It appears everyone can find different meanings to gratify their own sense of interpretation. I'm not saying you are wrong in many issues, but you are not right all the time.

The Bible has been used to carry out every evil man could ever imagine, and in the opposite sense ,every Good. It appears within itself; The Bible is the knowledge of good and evil, interpreted by mans hearts reasoning.
In the end there will be only one answer, and you will believe in Yeshua; that He was, and is the Emissary of Hashems Word; Hashems Word made flesh. Yeshua is Hashems Creation, a new man born without the spiritual sin of Adam, to reign as eternal King of Israel in Hashems Name. Though Yeshua's flesh was created by YHVH; Hashems Word within Him was from Old and Everlasting. Yeshua is the One likened to Moses that you are required to acknowledge in Deuteronomy 18:18,19.

Psalms 8:5

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Hebrews 2:7
You made him a little lower than the angels; You Crowned him with glory and honour, and did set him over the works of Your hands:


Do you think this verse references all mankind? or One?

How does YHVH crown him with glory and honor if He's dead; Jesus lives
Isaiah 53:12
#25
(01-20-2014, 07:29 AM)Azriel Wrote: A rabbi once discussed this issue, lost in the archives,that YHVH became plural in Genesis 3:22 because of mans separation from YHVH by sin;

Bs'd

God is ONE, therefore God is not a plural.

Quote:Saying man is no longer one with his Creator , and us in verse 22;YHVH speaks in the plural form ;

God speaking again to the angels.

Quote:Man has become one of us is rather awkwardly unfitting in the verse in the context of G-D speaking to the angels would indicate YHVH and the angels sinned as well.

Of course it does not indicate that. What it does indicate is that man became LIKE them in that they knew about good and evil.

Quote: I believe there is One G-D, not 2, or 3 but One.

But you don't believe that that one God IS one. And that is what the whole Bible teaches: GOD IS ONE!!

Quote:Do you believe the angels have their own minds to make a decision to sin or not? If so what ,is the difference between man and the angels, other than sin?

Angels have no free will like humans. They can make mistakes, but they see God so clearly that they have very little free will.

Quote:You give a lot of speculation. It appears everyone can find different meanings to gratify their own sense of interpretation. I'm not saying you are wrong in many issues, but you are not right all the time.

You happen to know somebody who is right all the time? Wink

Quote: Yeshua is the One likened to Moses that you are required to acknowledge in Deuteronomy 18:18,19.

He is the one mentioned in Deut 18:20-22, the one we must avoid like the plague:

"Deuteronomy 18:20-22: "But the prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart; how shall we know the word that Y-H-W-H has not spoken? When a prophet speaks in the name of Y-H-W-H, if the thing follows not, nor come to pass, this is the thing that Y-H-W-H has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you shall not be afraid of him."

Quote:[I]Psalms 8:5
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Do you think this verse references all mankind? or One?

I think it is a reference to mankind, because it says "enosh", which means "mortal", which excludes JC.

Quote:How does YHVH crown him with glory and honor if He's dead; Jesus lives

They say the same about Elvis.
#26
(01-21-2014, 12:11 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: [quote='Azriel' pid='91936' dateline='1390228177']
A rabbi once discussed this issue, lost in the archives,that YHVH became plural in Genesis 3:22 because of mans separation from YHVH by sin;

Bs'd

God is ONE, therefore God is not a plural.

Quote:Saying man is no longer one with his Creator , and us in verse 22;YHVH speaks in the plural form ;

[/quote]I believe you misunderstood what the Judaic rabbi said;I know Absolutely ;YHVH is One G-D. Man is His Creation. Man is One with YHVH without sin. Sin separates man from YHVH.

Shema Yisrael

(01-21-2014, 12:11 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:
Quote:Saying man is no longer one with his Creator , and us in verse 22;YHVH speaks in the plural form ;

God speaking again to the angels.
Speculation

(01-21-2014, 12:11 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: What it does indicate is that man became LIKE them in that they knew about good and evil.

Quote: Speculation, Angels are Messengers of YHVH. Why do you believe angels have the decision to choose right or wrong? If they did have the full knowledge of YHVH they would not separate themselves from YHVH.

[quote='Eliyahu' pid='91999' dateline='1390288268']
[quote='Azriel' pid='91936' dateline='1390228177']

[quote] I believe there is One G-D, not 2, or 3 but One.

But you don't believe that that one God IS one. And that is what the whole Bible teaches: GOD IS ONE!!
You bear false testimony against me!
Shema Yisrael

(01-21-2014, 12:11 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: [quote='Azriel' pid='91936' dateline='1390228177']
Quote:You give a lot of speculation. It appears everyone can find different meanings to gratify their own sense of interpretation. I'm not saying you are wrong in many issues, but you are not right all the time.

You happen to know somebody who is right all the time? Wink
Of course I do; Yeshua Meshiach. Jesus Christ was born without Original Sin because He was conceived without the Original Sin of Adam.

(01-21-2014, 12:11 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: [quote='Azriel' pid='91936' dateline='1390228177']
Quote:Do you believe the angels have their own minds to make a decision to sin or not? If so what ,is the difference between man and the angels, other than sin?

Angels have no free will like humans. They can make mistakes, but they see God so clearly that they have very little free will.
That makes no sense! You made that up!

(01-21-2014, 12:11 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: like the plague:

"Deuteronomy 18:20-22: "But the prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart; how shall we know the word that Y-H-W-H has not spoken? When a prophet speaks in the name of Y-H-W-H, if the thing follows not, nor come to pass, this is the thing that Y-H-W-H has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you shall not be afraid of him."
Matthew 24:2
Jesus lives

(01-21-2014, 12:11 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: [quote='Azriel' pid='91936' dateline='1390228177']

Quote:[I]Psalms 8:5
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Do you think this verse references all mankind? or One?

I think it is a reference to mankind, because it says "enosh", which means "mortal", which excludes JC.
You think, another speculation. Jesus called Himself; son of man. If Jesus wasn't mortal flesh, he could not have fulfilled the Davidic prophesy of Isaiah 9:6. Yeshua was Hashems Word made flesh. Flesh is mortal. Jesus rose from mortality to eternal life , just as we who believe on His Name shall inherit eternal life, when flesh and spirit become One; When New Jerusalem descends from Heaven on earth.

(01-21-2014, 12:11 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: [quote='Azriel' pid='91936' dateline='1390228177']
Quote:How does YHVH crown him with glory and honor if He's dead; Jesus lives

They say the same about Elvis.
Another presumption. Actually if you check your facts; Elvis said there is no King but Jesus Christ my Lord.

Blessings in you continued study of Torah.
#27
(01-21-2014, 06:29 AM)AzrielI believe you misunderstood what the Judaic rabbi said;I know Absolutely ;YHVH is One G-D. Man is His Creation. Man is One with YHVH without sin. Sin separates man from YHVH.[/quote' Wrote: Bs'd

Man is not one with God, with or without sin. Man is man and God is God. They are not one.

Quote:
(01-21-2014, 12:11 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: God speaking again to the angels.
Speculation

A lot less crazy speculation than speculating that God is three in one.

Quote: Speculation, Angels are Messengers of YHVH. Why do you believe angels have the decision to choose right or wrong?

Why do you speculate they don't?

Quote: If they did have the full knowledge of YHVH they would not separate themselves from YHVH.

Who says they do?

Quote:
(01-21-2014, 12:11 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: But you don't believe that that one God IS one. And that is what the whole Bible teaches: GOD IS ONE!!
You bear false testimony against me!
Shema Yisrael

So you don't believe in the trinity?


Quote:You happen to know somebody who is right all the time? Wink
Of course I do; Yeshua Meshiach.

He was not the meshiach, because he didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies.

And he was wrong quite a few times.

Quote: Jesus Christ was born without Original Sin because He was conceived without the Original Sin of Adam.

There is no such a thing as "original sin". That is a Christian invention.

Quote:
Quote:Angels have no free will like humans. They can make mistakes, but they see God so clearly that they have very little free will.

That makes no sense! You made that up!

Jewish tradition, given by God to Moses on mount Sinai.
#28
(01-21-2014, 06:49 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:
(01-21-2014, 06:29 AM)Azriel Wrote: I believe you misunderstood what the Judaic rabbi said;I know Absolutely ;YHVH is One G-D. Man is His Creation. Man is One with YHVH without sin. Sin separates man from YHVH.

Bs'd

Man is not one with God, with or without sin. Man is man and God is God. They are not one.

Jewish tradition, given by God to Moses on mount Sinai.
Judaism teaches that every person (Jewish and non-Jewish) was created "b'tzelem Elohim," which is Hebrew for "in the image of G-D
The Ten Commandments:
1.I am the Lord your God
2.You shall not recognize the gods of others in My presence
3.You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain
4.Remember the day of shabbat to keep it holy
5.Honor your father and your mother
6.You shall not murder
7.You shall not commit adultery
8.You shall not steal
9.Do not give false testimony against your neighbor
10.You shall not covet your fellow's possessions

Your wrong again, to be one with YHVH is to obey YHVH, else you serve another god. You seem very adamant on trying to bring twisted testimony against the Words of Yeshua, and by doing so you leave a wide gap in your accusations.
be well

(01-21-2014, 06:49 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:
(01-21-2014, 06:29 AM)Azriel Wrote:
Quote: Jesus Christ was born without Original Sin because He was conceived without the Original Sin of Adam.

There is no such a thing as "original sin". That is a Christian invention.
I could have sworn that was in the Bible; It was!
Genesis 3:6-24
Sorry but wrong again my friend. What denomination of Judaism are you, and what teachings do you adhere to . Your different than the others who have all left the forum. Your teachings are not the Hebrew Bible?

(01-21-2014, 06:49 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:
(01-21-2014, 06:29 AM)Azriel Wrote:
You bear false testimony against me!
Shema Yisrael

So you don't believe in the trinity?
The word trinity is not in the Gospels, or Hebrew Bible.
I believe in Hashem, His Word, and His Spirit, but certainly not 3 gods. They define One G-D.
I do not believe the Gospels and Hebrew Bible are two Bibles, but One Word from One G-D.
You can disagree all you like, but truth is truth, and with YHVH ; His Truth will always be revealed in the end.

Shalom, have to run.
#29
(01-21-2014, 07:07 AM)Azriel Wrote: Your wrong again, to be one with YHVH is to obey YHVH, else you serve another god.

Bs'd

Did you make up this definition of "one" all by yourself?
#30
(01-22-2014, 04:42 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:
(01-21-2014, 07:07 AM)Azriel Wrote: Your wrong again, to be one with YHVH is to obey YHVH, else you serve another god.

Bs'd

Did you make up this definition of "one" all by yourself?
No, actually it was said by a Judaic rabbi


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