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Why doesn't the NT Greek use plural words for G-d?
#31
Nachshon Wrote:Then why are you replying to me?

This is just the appropriate reply you should receive, if not for your sake for the sake of others reading.

Nachshon Wrote:I've shown the contradictions. The Tankah shows what is right and the truth, Psalms 119:142.

There is no contradiction there to the New Testament.

I love PSALM 119. But notice the very last verse. The writer brimming over with adoration of the law confesses that he knows that he has gone astray.

It is in the very end of this long praise of God's law in 176 verses!

"I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek Your servant, For have not forgotten Your commandments." ( verse 176 )

This is a man who is convicted by the law he loves so much. He realizes his distance from God in spite of his intense admiration for God's law.
He ends the Psalm with a cry to be sought by God.

You seem not to grasp that the New Testament salvation is that answer to the lover of the law of God for eternal redemption and eternal life.

All we like sheep have gone astray. The Lord has laid on Him [the Messiah] the iniquity of us all.

First I see no contradiction.
Second, instead of rejecting the NT you should allow it to speak God's will to you.

Nachshon Wrote:I reject it because it contradicts the Tanakh. PERIOD.

But it fulfills the Torah.

Do you think all those tons of blood of bulls and goats were what God really wanted ?

They point to the ONE atoning sacrifice of the Son of God.

Now you may get lost as to how Israel as a nation seems to get lost in this Savior of the world message of the New Testament.

I would refer to a brief parable of Jesus about the treasure hidden in a field -

"The kingdom of the heavens is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid, and in his joy goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field." (Matt. 13:4)

The field is the whole earth.
The treasure hidden in the field is the nations of Israel.
The man who sells all to get the treasure is the Son of God - Jesus.

Christ went to the cross to sell all that He had in order to purchase the whole earth. But what was on His heart was the nation of Israel as a treasure hidden in the God created earth.

That parable concerns Christ's death in relation to obtaining Israel. The following parable relates to Christ's death to obtain the Christian church where Jew and gentile become the one new man.

"Again, the kingdom of the heavens is like a merchant seeking fine pearls; and finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it." (Matt. 13:45,46)

The man in verse 44 is Christ. who found the kingdom of the heavens (Matt. 4:12 - 12:23) and hid it in 16:21; 17:22-23; 20:18-19; and 26:1 - 27:52 to sell all that He had and to buy the field, i.e. redeem the created and lost earth, for the kingdom.

For the earth (the field) was created by God for His kingdom [b](Gen. 1:26-28)


The merchant in the parable of the precious pearl is also Christ, who was seeking the church for His kingdom. After finding it in Matt.16:18 and 18:17, He went to the cross and sold all that He had and bought it for the kingdom.

The pearl is produced in the death waters. That is the world filled with death. The pearl is produced in the sea by a living oyster, which represents Christ, wounded by a little rock (the sinner).

Once wounded by a little rock the oyster secrets its life-juice around the wounding rock. Christ went to the cross, wounded by the sins of all sinners. If we believe in Him He secrets His divine life around us to make us a pearl. In the end of the bible the New Jerusalem contains pearls as one of its building materials.

Since the pearl comes out of the sea, which signifies the world corrupted by Satan (Isa. 57:20; Rev. 17:15), the pearl of a great price must refer to the Christian church, which is constituted with mainly with regenerated believers from the Gentile world and which is to God of great value.

Some of this is for the sake of other truth seekers who may be reading along.

Nachshon Wrote:No, it's the contradictions and rejection of Torah. Also, the belief that G-d can die, as you espouse. You know that personally.

We have been through that before. The Bible doesn't say God died. The bible says that God became a born child and a sent Son. That child and Son died. And that was God and man united.

We argued this before. No need to repeat everything. But I do not have to prove to anyone that God died. I only have to believe and point out that God and man were One Person in Jesus Christ.

Now Tanakhreader, a poster who I think first responded to you, did successfully point out that in Zechariah you have God sending God. And you have God being sent BY God. It is absolutely true.

You ignored it, if I am not mistaken. I think it was in this thread.

But in Zechariah you have the mysterious sending of the Lord of hosts BY the Lord of hosts. And you have God as the sent one and the sender. I elaborated on this same revelation in a thread called "God Sends God" .

So you don't believe the New Testament. Well, we see that God said He was the First and the Last in the book of Isaiah. And we see that Jesus Christ says that He is the First and the Last and He DIED and is living forever and ever.

So though I cannot provide that passage explicitly saying "God died" I can provide the verse saying that Christ the First and the Last just as Jehovah God, died and resurrected. God and man were ONE.

And it is not just ANYONE who said this. The testimony and character of the One teaching so is the crucial matter. He expressed God in man.

Now compare:

"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts,

I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6)


The Godman Jesus in the New Testament -

"And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead; and He placed His right hand upon me, saying,

Do not fear; I am the First and the Last and the living One; and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever; and I have the keys of death and of Hades." (Revelation 1:16,17)


So the First and the Last can only be ONE First and Last. And you do not have to press on me demanding a verse saying "God died."

I will point you to the Son of God who said He is the First and the Last and "became dead" to accomplish God's eternal redemption. And this One said "I am the resurrection and the life" (John 11:25). This One is God become a man who could die and resurrected as Lord of all forever.

You may not believe this. But I believe this.
This is the gospel and the fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah 53.
Your arguments about Isaiah 53 are wrong.
I know you have written your many reasons why we should not believe this things. But some of us believe the Bible.

There are some paradoxes between the Old And New Testaments.
I don't think there are completely contradictory messages from God to the world there.
#32
(12-22-2013, 06:20 PM)Nachshon Wrote: In my exchanges and posts with Christians, it is always argued that the the Hebrew word Elokim, used for G-d, is to be understood as plural. This supports the concept of the trinity in their minds even though the word trinity or triunity is no where to be found in the Tanakh or the Christian NT. Certainly then the Greek translations would support this notion in the NT.

When studying the Greek words used for G-d, I noticed that there are no plural words for god used for the G-d of Israel in the NT. The only references to the plural words for god in the entire NT are found in the following verses:

John 10:34, Acts 14:11, Acts 19:26, 1 Cor 8:5, John 10:35, and Acts 7:40, Gal 4:8.

The Greek words used in these verses are theoi, theois, and theous.

All other references to G-d in the NT uses the singular versions of the word for god in Greek (theon, theo, theos, thee, etc).

If a trinity is to be understood for G-d, why isn't this supported in the Greek language of the NT at all? Please let me know if I've made a mistake.

In my search and study, this is the breakdown I found for the words in Greek that are translated as god(s):

θεέ noun: vocative singular masculine 2
θεοί noun: nominative plural masculine 1
θεοὶ noun: nominative plural masculine 4
θεοῖς noun: dative plural masculine 1
θεόν noun: accusative singular masculine 74
θεὸν noun: accusative singular masculine 73
θεὸν noun: accusative singular feminine 1
θεός noun: nominative singular masculine 69
θεὸς noun: nominative singular masculine 236
θεοῦ noun: genitive singular masculine 687
θεοὺς noun: accusative plural masculine 2
θεῷ noun: dative singular masculine 157

Total 1307

If you do an internet search on θεὸς, you'll find on the http://www.laparola.net site these numbers and breakdowns. I didn't make them up.

You shouldn't even use God anyway, Gad is a Babylonian deity of fortune. God isn't in the original.
#33
The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are God in the New Testament regardless of the finding or missing of plural words for God in Greek NT.

The Father is God - "Father, ... And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." (John 17:1a,3)

The Son is God - "But of the Son, Your throne of God, is forever and ever ...." (Hebrews 1:8)

The Holy Spirit is God - "But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to deceive the Holy Spirit ... You have not lied to men but to God." (Acts 5:3a,4b)

There is really no mandatory need to find a plural form of the God of Israel used in the New Testament, if there is or is not one/some present.

If such a form of the Greek word for God is present, it doesn't change John 17:1,3; Hebrews 1:8; Acts 5:3,4. Neither are these passages effected if such a plural form of "God" is not present.
#34
(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: I've shown the contradictions. The Tankah shows what is right and the truth, Psalms 119:142.

There is no contradiction there to the New Testament.
[/quote]
Sure there is. Don't you and the NT preach the end of the law?

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: I love PSALM 119. But notice the very last verse. The writer brimming over with adoration of the law confesses that he knows that he has gone astray.
This doesn't say the law is done away with, does it? Are you familiar with Prov 24:16?

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: You seem not to grasp that the New Testament salvation is that answer to the lover of the law of God for eternal redemption and eternal life.
You don't grasp that messiah doesn't save - he can't even save himself, Psalm 20:6, 28:8. In J-sus case, Hebrews 5:7.

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: First I see no contradiction.
Second, instead of rejecting the NT you should allow it to speak God's will to you.
It does speak to me - it says to reject it because it contradicts Torah.

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: But it fulfills the Torah.

Do you think all those tons of blood of bulls and goats were what God really wanted ?

They point to the ONE atoning sacrifice of the Son of God.
Nowhere does the Tanakh say the Torah is done away with. In fact, you as a non-Jew will have to keep it in the future kingdom, Isa 56:1-8, Isa 66.

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: We have been through that before. The Bible doesn't say God died. The bible says that God became a born child and a sent Son. That child and Son died. And that was God and man united.
Then you changed your mind. I can show you were you said your god died if you want.

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: Now Tanakhreader, a poster who I think first responded to you, did successfully point out that in Zechariah you have God sending God. And you have God being sent BY God. It is absolutely true.

You ignored it, if I am not mistaken. I think it was in this thread.
Hashem sending Himself makes no sense since you believe He is everywhere. There's no need to send Himself anywhere. Tanachreader made no sense here.

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: But in Zechariah you have the mysterious sending of the Lord of hosts BY the Lord of hosts. And you have God as the sent one and the sender. I elaborated on this same revelation in a thread called "God Sends God" .
I'll have to check it out so that I can correct your mistake.

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: So you don't believe the New Testament. Well, we see that God said He was the First and the Last in the book of Isaiah. And we see that Jesus Christ says that He is the First and the Last and He DIED and is living forever and ever.
You can't be first and last if you have to be born and die. There's no continuity or eternality.

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: So though I cannot provide that passage explicitly saying "God died" I can provide the verse saying that Christ the First and the Last just as Jehovah God, died and resurrected. God and man were ONE.
You contradict yourself over and over again. You said above G-d didn't die. Make up your mind.

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6) [/b]
Then, you cannot say that G-d sent part of Himself somewhere else. J-sus cannot be G-d in the flesh. What don't you get?

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: So the First and the Last can only be ONE First and Last. And you do not have to press on me demanding a verse saying "God died."
You're reading into every verse what you want to support your dead god. You're worshipping the wrong god.

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: You may not believe this. But I believe this. This is the gospel and the fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah 53. Your arguments about Isaiah 53 are wrong. I know you have written your many reasons why we should not believe this things. But some of us believe the Bible.
Hashem is sinless. He cannot take on sin, He is perfect, Deut 32:4, 2 Sam 22:31.

(12-31-2013, 12:19 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: There are some paradoxes between the Old And New Testaments.

I don't think there are completely contradictory messages from God to the world there.
Not in the Tanakh, but in the NT there are plenty of contradictory messages, especially from Paul.

(12-31-2013, 03:57 AM)MessianicJew Wrote: You shouldn't even use God anyway, Gad is a Babylonian deity of fortune. God isn't in the original.
Then why do you use it?
#35
I haven't time to write more. However, Jesus said that law would not pass away. The principle of man being justified by the law keeping is indeed done away.

Now your objections are often one liners which require a lot of labor for me to address.
As I glance down through your comments, I cannot get too involved with them now.

But you are hung up on the concept of a dying God. This seems to be one of your trump cards.

God demonstrates His transcendence over death in the victory of Christ's resurrection.
And this is after God demonstrates His transcendence over sin in the perfect life of Christ.

That is the point that you don't believe. God Who is indestructible manifested Himself in the Son.

Salvation is not promised to whosoever can explain without contradicting himself.
Salvation is to whosoever believes.

Good day. Must tend to enjoyment of God in mundane things and duties of a Tuesday.
#36
(12-31-2013, 06:50 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are God in the New Testament regardless of the finding or missing of plural words for God in Greek NT.
It's a major hole in your defense and argument.

(12-31-2013, 06:50 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: The Father is God - "Father, ... And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." (John 17:1a,3)
There are two people here - G-d and who the NT believes is messiah. They are not ONE of essense. Eternal life is associated with knowing the Father, and His words, Isa 51:7, Prov 6:23.

(12-31-2013, 06:50 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: The Son is God - "But of the Son, Your throne of God, is forever and ever ...." (Hebrews 1:8)
The original quote in Psalms 45:6 has nothing to do with messiah.

(12-31-2013, 06:50 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: The Holy Spirit is God - "But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to deceive the Holy Spirit ... You have not lied to men but to God." (Acts 5:3a,4b)
I can't rescue the entire NT all of the time from its errors because it has been redacted to support erroneous beliefs. In the Tanakh, the spirit of holiness refers to many things, but never a separate entity of Hashem. The term "spirit" is used to denote the will, prophecy, and obedience to Torah. So, in this way I believe Ananias was trying to deceive by going against the will of Hashem.

(12-31-2013, 06:50 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: There is really no mandatory need to find a plural form of the God of Israel used in the New Testament, if there is or is not one/some present.
Sure there is. It flies against your argument that Hashem is plural, even in your preferred NT bible.

(12-31-2013, 06:50 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: If such a form of the Greek word for God is present, it doesn't change John 17:1,3; Hebrews 1:8; Acts 5:3,4. Neither are these passages effected if such a plural form of "God" is not present.
All of these passages use singular Greek terms for G-d. They contradict your notion that these versess support a plural G-d and oneness in unity when the term for G-d is singular.

(12-31-2013, 08:43 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: I haven't time to write more. However, Jesus said that law would not pass away. The principle of man being justified by the law keeping is indeed done away.
Nope. Even your messiah says so in Matthew 5:17-20 that the law is not done away with, even as a result of his death.

(12-31-2013, 08:43 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: Now your objections are often one liners which require a lot of labor for me to address.
I try to supply verses or logical arguments. It would get too involved to provide a thesis for every post or statement.

(12-31-2013, 08:43 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: But you are hung up on the concept of a dying God. This seems to be one of your trump cards.
Actually, I think you're hung up in trying to prove this ridiculous idea. It is a trump card because the idea is not at all supported in Tanakh, and the reason why I created the thread, "Yeshua died a divine god-man".

(12-31-2013, 08:43 AM)Feedmysheep Wrote: Good day. Must tend to enjoyment of God in mundane things and duties of a Tuesday.
Take care.
#37
(12-22-2013, 06:20 PM)Nachshon Wrote: In my exchanges and posts with Christians, it is always argued that the the Hebrew word Elokim, used for G-d, is to be understood as plural. This supports the concept of the trinity in their minds even though the word trinity or triunity is no where to be found in the Tanakh or the Christian NT. Certainly then the Greek translations would support this notion in the NT.


If you do an internet search on θεὸς, you'll find on the http://www.laparola.net site these numbers and breakdowns. I didn't make them up.

Common sense knows YHVH is One G-D; Shema Yisrael

We must not confuse G-D, His Word, and His Spirit as 3 separate individuals, but all are part of One G-D. Yet still to argue G-D's Written Word does not exist in this world, nor does His Spirit, and Glory live within us, is scripturally unsound , and dissecting all the verbs and nouns, singular or plural become void of understanding. . So do our physical eye's read what is placed within our spirits from Heaven; G-D's Word made flesh. Though YHVH is not of this world; His Word lives within us.

Ezekiel 36:26-27, Ezekiel 11:19,20
Yet when we receive His Spirit within us, we are no longer of this world, and detest the evil of this world. Then does Hashems Kingdom lives within us and we in that Kingdom. We live physically in this world, but we are no longer of this world, Born again by the Spirit of our Living G-D, our sins given atonement from Hashems Son Yeshua[Isaiah 53:4,5].Iniquity does not atone for sin, and all have sinned and fall short of the glory of G-D, save One ;Immanuel

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of YHVH should come, Yeshua answered them and said, The kingdom of YHVH does not come with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of G-D is within you.
#38
(01-02-2014, 08:33 AM)Azriel Wrote: Common sense knows YHVH is One G-D; Shema Yisrael

We must not confuse G-D, His Word, and His Spirit as 3 separate individuals, but all are part of One G-D. Yet still to argue G-D's Written Word does not exist in this world, nor does His Spirit, and Glory live within us, is scripturally unsound , and dissecting all the verbs and nouns, singular or plural become void of understanding. . So do our physical eye's read what is placed within our spirits from Heaven; G-D's Word made flesh. Though YHVH is not of this world; His Word lives within us.
Hashem's words/desires found their fruition in the physical world. In that sense, Hashem's word's and glory is all around us as the Psalmist says, Psalms 19:1, Psalms 57:11.

Hashem's word's/desires finds their way into human lives too when we live upto our godly purpose, obedience and love of G-d. In this way does the spirit/desire/will of G-d live within us when we follow His Torah, Ezek 36:26-27, Psalms 119:165-166.

If you don't understand the basics of grammar and context, many mistakes are made interpreting verses. And being that Hashem gave these words, everything matters. Even J-sus says this in Matthew 5:18. The smallest strokes refer to cantillation marks, part of the grammar. You're missing out on a lot if you don't take these things seriously. Doesn't Rev 22:19 say not to remove any words? Words are very important Azriel.

The spirit of holiness doesn't contradict itself. This is common sense, and the spirit doesn't lead everyone to follow whatever they want, Ezek 20:16, Jer 13:10. I don't think you're in this camp, but others have argued things with me that are contradictory.
#39
(01-02-2014, 08:59 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(01-02-2014, 08:33 AM)Azriel Wrote: Common sense knows YHVH is One G-D; Shema Yisrael

We must not confuse G-D, His Word, and His Spirit as 3 separate individuals, but all are part of One G-D. Yet still to argue G-D's Written Word does not exist in this world, nor does His Spirit, and Glory live within us, is scripturally unsound , and dissecting all the verbs and nouns, singular or plural become void of understanding. . So do our physical eye's read what is placed within our spirits from Heaven; G-D's Word made flesh. Though YHVH is not of this world; His Word lives within us.
Hashem's words/desires found their fruition in the physical world. In that sense, Hashem's word's and glory is all around us as the Psalmist says, Psalms 19:1, Psalms 57:11.

Hashem's word's/desires finds their way into human lives too when we live upto our godly purpose, obedience and love of G-d. In this way does the spirit/desire/will of G-d live within us when we follow His Torah, Ezek 36:26-27, Psalms 119:165-166.

If you don't understand the basics of grammar and context, many mistakes are made interpreting verses. And being that Hashem gave these words, everything matters. Even J-sus says this in Matthew 5:18. The smallest strokes refer to cantillation marks, part of the grammar. You're missing out on a lot if you don't take these things seriously. Doesn't Rev 22:19 say not to remove any words? Words are very important Azriel.

The spirit of holiness doesn't contradict itself. This is common sense, and the spirit doesn't lead everyone to follow whatever they want, Ezek 20:16, Jer 13:10. I don't think you're in this camp, but others have argued things with me that are contradictory.
I agree that the word must be understood clearly, taking Hebrew and Greek translations in perspective so that the true Word will be presented before us. I also in objectiveness know the Bible has been interpreted by so many different individuals to their own interpretation ,to justify most everything evil mankind has wrought upon this earth. Only by the Spirit of YHVH dwelling within the vessels of our lives can we see the words clearly, by the heart.

Medical science has proven the heart is not just an organ that relies solely on the brain to function, but has it's own central intelligence like the brain.Dr Andrew Armour, a neurologist from Montreal , Canada , discovered a small but complex network of neurons in the heart, which he has dubbed ‘the little brain in the heart’. These neurons seem to be capable of both short and long term memory.
Though this is a Christian website , you might find the facts interesting.;
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ma...acle_2.htm

My point of reasoning is that all the words, and mind knowledge one might possess without the hearts intuition, and feelings, will veer from Hashems True Word. It's always been amazing to me how everyone has a different interpretation of the Bible than another; different denominations, in both Christian and Judaic religion, even in the fact the word Christianity has become a bitter word in the mouth of the persecuted, and of most of Israel.

Not many stop and take a second look at the true words of Yeshua. His words align perfectly with the Hebrew Bible, and His feeling were not to dissolve Torah but rather strengthen and fulfill Torah, the Gospel spread to all corners of the earth to proclaim the G-D of Israel is the true G-D of Heaven and earth. I see you many times defending the words of Yeshua, while others not understanding your words believe you are rejecting His words.. I wondered many times if you think the punishment Yeshua received in the days of a corrupt leadership of Israel was justified, or if you think his words were misunderstood, just a thought.

Words alone cannot make us understand the Word of YHVH, but only by Loving Him with a pure heart. I believe by accepting Hashems Spirit within us leads us to a higher understanding of His Word; by the changing of our hearts conviction, a feat only YHVH can do.

Mankind has come so far in medical technology, and science, and understanding the complex regions of physics and space. The growing populations can now be sustained by technology that supplies electricity, food sources and drinking water, mankind s knowledge increase by double every few years, and soon closing the gap to every year. Yet in all mans knowledge we haven't succeeded in the most important part of mans existence; The heart of compassion, and charity for ourselves, and for others, which is the most important commandment of all; Love YHVH, and our neighbor as ourselves. It is what Jesus said were the two most important commandments, upon which rests all the Law and prophets, yet mankind spends most of the riches and resources on military technology, and killing others.

Wouldn't it be such a better world if even men could sit down and discuss and reason with one another as we do now, without the fear of physical retribution? In all mans quest for knowledge he has failed miserably to change the heart of man, left only to Hashem. How far are our beliefs different from one another, and what are our objectives and desires for this world to be. It appears words fall short today to the conclusion of the Words of the Bible; which in the end will bring Peace ;we both believe, and strive for; is the beginning of wisdom.
Shalom
#40
(01-05-2014, 09:36 AM)Azriel Wrote: Not many stop and take a second look at the true words of Yeshua. His words align perfectly with the Hebrew Bible, and His feeling were not to dissolve Torah but rather strengthen and fulfill Torah, the Gospel spread to all corners of the earth to proclaim the G-D of Israel is the true G-D of Heaven and earth. I see you many times defending the words of Yeshua, while others not understanding your words believe you are rejecting His words.. I wondered many times if you think the punishment Yeshua received in the days of a corrupt leadership of Israel was justified, or if you think his words were misunderstood, just a thought.
I've learned truth is truth, and to accept it no matter where it comes from. I see in Yeshua's words in many places where it aligns with Torah. I would be dishonest if I did not try to point this out and what I believe is the true Judaic and Tanakh perspective in these cases.

With regards to Yeshua's punishment and death, many fail to see that at the time of the 2nd temple, particularly during Yeshua's life, many temple positions had been bought-off and appointed by the Romans. The Sadducees had control of many things and it is they who were involved in Yeshua's arrest and death, though the Romans were responsible for the crucifixion. We see in the NT that it was the Sadducees who sent Paul out to persecute the followers of the Way. Unfortunately, I think the NT has confused the two groups, Pharisees and Sadducees, and this has caused many problems.

This is why I believe Yeshua says in Matthew 5:17-20 to follow the way of the Pharisees and Scribes, contrary to the Sadducees. I think Yeshua was killed for wrong political reasons, aided by the Sadducees. If you can, get a copy of the book, "Revolution in Judea", by Hyam Maccoby. There's nothing wrong with someone believing he is the messiah within what is laid out in Tanakh, though I don't believe that Yeshua fulfilled these expectations. This is different than believing one is G-d, which I don't think Yeshua felt about himself.


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