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Daniel 9
#11
(01-21-2014, 04:34 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: Bs'd


The seventy 'weeks' of Daniel 9



Daniel 9:24-27, King James Version:


"from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to built Jerusalem unto the messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:" This commandment was given in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes, see Nehemiah 2. The claim is that this was in 445 BCE (before the common era) From this point are counted the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks, together 69 weeks. 69 weeks are 483 days. Every prophetic day is supposed to stand for a year of 360 days. This gives us 483 x 360 is 173880 days. In order to convert this to solar years we have to divide this by 365.25, and then we get 476 year.

Are you still with me?

Now when add 476 years to 445 BCE, then we come to 31 CE, the year of the crucifixion of Jesus.

Why the Christian interpretation is wrong
Psalm 90 ~ For a thousand years in Your sight are but as yesterday when it is past
Shalom
#12
(01-22-2014, 08:17 AM)ThomasDGW Wrote: "All these things have been fulfilled."

So, there are no more transgressions, sins have ended, righteousness is everlasting, and vision and prophecy are sealed up, and the most Holy is anointed. What is the name of this world you love in?

Bs'd

You mean your messiah also failed to fulfill this prophecy? Yet another messianic prophecy NOT fulfilled by JC??


“Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

About who does this speak? Daniel says: "decreed for your people and your holy city"; this speaks about the Jews and Jerusalem. And then more specifically, it speaks about the Jews living in that 490 year time period.

So it does not speak about the whole world, all of mankind, but only about those Jews living in and near Jerusalem in the second Temple period and a little before.

So those Jews would be made to stop to sin, they would get atonement for their transgressions, and prophecy would end.


So why was the second Temple destroyed? For the same reason as the first one; because of the sins of the Jews.

When the Temple was destroyed, millions of Jews were killed, others where displaced, exiled.

Their premature deaths accomplished several things. First: they stopped sinning, a dead person cannot sin anymore. It was a cleanup, like the flood, but on a smaller scale.

Second; because of their painfull premature death, those Jews got atonement. Through suffering, which is punishment for sins, their sins were erased. What was left were their good deeds, so they got everlasting righteousness.

And, as we all know, after the second Temple period there were no more prophets, so the prophetic era was sealed. That is what happened then and there, and that is what Daniel describes.

(01-22-2014, 08:21 AM)Azriel Wrote:
(01-21-2014, 04:34 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: Why the Christian interpretation is wrong
Psalm 90 ~ For a thousand years in Your sight are but as yesterday when it is past
Shalom

Bs'd

Well, if you can be that flexible with the timeperiods in Daniel 9, then it is totally useless as a prophecy proving that JC was the messiah.
#13
(01-22-2014, 04:36 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:
(01-22-2014, 02:28 AM)IamBenny Wrote: And this is the man you will believe to be messiah...

Bs'd

The man who will fulfill the messianic prophecies, that is the man I will believe to be the messiah.

JC did not fulfill the messianic prophecies, therefore he was NOT the messiah.

And this is exactly what antichrist will, fulfil (YOUR) prophecies
#14
(01-23-2014, 04:58 AM)IamBenny Wrote:
(01-22-2014, 04:36 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:
(01-22-2014, 02:28 AM)IamBenny Wrote: And this is the man you will believe to be messiah...

Bs'd

The man who will fulfill the messianic prophecies, that is the man I will believe to be the messiah.

JC did not fulfill the messianic prophecies, therefore he was NOT the messiah.

And this is exactly what antichrist will, fulfil (YOUR) prophecies

Bs'd

So you believe that somebody who doesn't fulfill the messianic prophecies is the messiah, and somebody who does fulfill them is the anti-messiah (whatever that may mean)??
#15
(01-23-2014, 05:37 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:
(01-23-2014, 04:58 AM)IamBenny Wrote:
(01-22-2014, 04:36 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:
(01-22-2014, 02:28 AM)IamBenny Wrote: And this is the man you will believe to be messiah...

Bs'd

The man who will fulfill the messianic prophecies, that is the man I will believe to be the messiah.

JC did not fulfill the messianic prophecies, therefore he was NOT the messiah.

And this is exactly what antichrist will, fulfil (YOUR) prophecies

Bs'd

So you believe that somebody who doesn't fulfill the messianic prophecies is the messiah, and somebody who does fulfill them is the anti-messiah (whatever that may mean)??
You will find out and it will be nasty...
#16
Psalm 90 ~ For a thousand years in Your sight are but as yesterday when it is past
Shalom
[/quote]

Bs'd

Well, if you can be that flexible with the timeperiods in Daniel 9, then it is totally useless as a prophecy proving that JC was the messiah.
[/quote]Then if you think this way ,you should just wash out all Bible prophesy as well. I didn't write my response King David did; go figure!
Shalom
#17
"You mean your messiah also failed to fulfill this prophecy? Yet another messianic prophecy NOT fulfilled by JC??"

I have made it very clear that Jesus has not come as Messiah yet, so of course he did not fulfill this prophecy. Wouldn't you think it was irritating when someone you are discussing with continually ignores what you are saying?

"it speaks about the Jews living in that 490 year time period...only about those Jews living in and near Jerusalem in the second Temple period and a little before.

So those Jews would be made to stop to sin, they would get atonement for their transgressions, and prophecy would end.

... First: they stopped sinning, a dead person cannot sin anymore. ...

Second; because of their painfull premature death, those Jews got atonement. ...

And, as we all know, after the second Temple period there were no more prophets, so the prophetic era was sealed."

Well, thank you for at least describing your world, even though you did not reveal its name. You live in a world where what happens to a majority is considered total. You live in a world where the Israel can become sinless by killing a whole bunch of Israelite sinners and ignoring the sinners who continue to live. In such a world, complete health could be achieved by killing off sick people. In your world, you can prove that Jesus is not the Messiah by inventing your own criteria and shouting victory.

I live in a world where everlasting righteousness means that righteousness will be done by living people, and where the end of sin means that living people will no longer sin. In my world, one has to humbly submit to the criteria given by God, and accept two or three witnesses as establishing the truth. I live in a world where God can continue to send prophets as He chooses.
#18
(01-23-2014, 06:28 AM)IamBenny Wrote:
(01-23-2014, 05:37 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:
(01-23-2014, 04:58 AM)IamBenny Wrote:
(01-22-2014, 04:36 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:
(01-22-2014, 02:28 AM)IamBenny Wrote: And this is the man you will believe to be messiah...

Bs'd

The man who will fulfill the messianic prophecies, that is the man I will believe to be the messiah.

JC did not fulfill the messianic prophecies, therefore he was NOT the messiah.

And this is exactly what antichrist will, fulfil (YOUR) prophecies

Bs'd

So you believe that somebody who doesn't fulfill the messianic prophecies is the messiah, and somebody who does fulfill them is the anti-messiah (whatever that may mean)??
You will find out and it will be nasty...

Bs'd

I don't think so.

For the simple reason that it is total nonsense to say that somebody who didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies is the messiah, and somebody who does fulfill them is not the messiah.

It's the world upside down.

(01-23-2014, 10:24 AM)ThomasDGW Wrote: "You mean your messiah also failed to fulfill this prophecy? Yet another messianic prophecy NOT fulfilled by JC??"

I have made it very clear that Jesus has not come as Messiah yet, so of course he did not fulfill this prophecy.

Bs'd

So, then we can at least agree on the fact that the messiah didn't come yet.

Quote:Well, thank you for at least describing your world, even though you did not reveal its name. You live in a world where what happens to a majority is considered total. You live in a world where the Israel can become sinless by killing a whole bunch of Israelite sinners and ignoring the sinners who continue to live.

It was not Israel who killed the sinners, it was God, using the romans as His agents.

Quote: In such a world, complete health could be achieved by killing off sick people. In your world, you can prove that Jesus is not the Messiah by inventing your own criteria and shouting victory.

I don't invent my own criteria for the messiah, I apply GODS criteria for the messiah:

The messiah must fulfill the messianic prophecies, written down in the Hebrew Bible by Gods prophets.

Quote:I live in a world where everlasting righteousness means that righteousness will be done by living people,

So you have to adjust your world view a bit.

Quote: and where the end of sin means that living people will no longer sin.

As I explained, it speaks about the sins of those Jews in that place at that time. They were forcibly stopped to sin.

Compare it with the flood, and evil world, cleaned up by wiping out the evil doers.

Quote: In my world, one has to humbly submit to the criteria given by God, and accept two or three witnesses as establishing the truth.

So if I bring you two witnesses who will testify that Mohammed was a prophet of God, than you'll convert to the Islam?

This may come as a shock to you, but there does exist such a thing as "false witnesses".

Quote: I live in a world where God can continue to send prophets as He chooses.

I live in the same world, it is just that God clearly says in Daniel 9 that the prophetic era would be sealed in the second Temple period.
#19
Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
#20
(01-24-2014, 12:24 AM)IamBenny Wrote: Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Bs'd

JC was one of 'm.

He didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies, just demanded that he should be worshiped like God.

If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for Y-H-W-H your God is testing you to know whether you love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after Y-H-W-H your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which Y-H-W-H your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst.

If anyone secretly entices you—even if it is your brother, your father’s son or your mother’s son, or your own son or daughter, or the wife you embrace, or your most intimate friend—saying, “Let us go worship other gods,” whom neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7*any of the gods of the peoples that are around you, whether near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other, 8*you must not yield to or heed any such persons. Show them no pity or compassion and do not shield them. 9*But you shall surely kill them; your own hand shall be first against them to execute them, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10*Stone them to death for trying to turn you away from
Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11*Then all Israel shall hear and be afraid, and never again do any such wickedness.

Deut 13


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