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"Messianic prophecies", quoted by the NT
#1
Bs’d


The NT brings us prophecies of which it claims that they are fulfilled by JC.

Let us take a closer look at those. The first one we find in Matthew 1:21; “she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel" (which means, God with us).”

This text can be found in Isaiah 7:14; “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el.” Revised Standard Version.

We see here that here in Isaiah is not spoken about a virgin, but about a young woman. It is of course much more normal that a young woman gets pregnant than that a virgin gets pregnant. But Isaiah clearly speaks about a young woman, and not a virgin. Some translations say, for instance the King James, say in Isaiah 7:14 “virgin”, and not “young woman”, but that is a wrong translation. The Hebrew word used in Isaiah 7:14 is “almah”, and that means “young woman”, and not virgin. The Hebrew word for virgin is “betulah”. That word is used for instance when the Torah speaks about Rebecca in Gen 24:16; “The maiden was very fair to look upon, a virgin, whom no man had known.”

This fact is recognized by many Christian Bible translators. For instance the New English Bible, the Good News Bible, the Revised Standard Version, and the New World Translation have translated this in the right way, and not as “virgin”.

So the NT has been misquoting the Hebrew Bible.
Nowhere in the Tanach (Tanach is compilation of the first letters of the three parts of the Hebrew Bible, Torah, Nevi'iem, (prophets), and Chetuviem, (writings)) is a virgin to be found who would get pregnant. In fact, NOWHERE in the Tanach does a virgin bear a child. This concept is only to found in pagan mythology.
And when we look at the whole chapter of Isaiah 7, then we see that it doesn't speak about the messiah. It speaks about God giving a sign to Achaz, that he will have peace in his days.
This chapter has no bearing on the messiah whatsoever.
What the NT does is ripping a text out of context, mistranslating it, and presenting it as a messianic prophecy.

Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matt 2:14 “And he rose and took the child and his mother by night, and departed to Egypt, 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, "Out of Egypt have I called my son."”

Here a text from Hosea 11: 1 which says: “out of Egypt I called my son” is applied to the messiah.
But let's take a look WHO is the “son of God” in the Tanach: “And you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, Israel is my first-born son, and I say to you, "Let my son go that he may serve me"; if you refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay your first-born son.'" Exodus 4:22
This is clear language. And also in Hosea 11:1 it CLEARLY speaks about Israel, which has been led out of slavery from Egypt by God. See here Hosea 11:1 complete, and not a part ripped out of context: “When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.”
Just read the whole chapter of Hosea 11 and see that it all speaks about Israel, and not about the messiah.
What the NT is doing here once again is ripping a piece of text out of context which has no bearing on the messiah whatsoever, and then present it as a “messianic prophecy”. Something it obviously is not.

Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matt 2:16-18 “Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, was in a furious rage, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time which he had ascertained from the wise men. Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah: “A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for her children; she refused to be consoled, because they were no more."”
Here the NT claims that Jeremiah 31:15 speaks about a slaughter of children, taking place in the days of the messiah.

And now read what is really happening there: Jeremiah 31: “10 "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the coastlands afar off; say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him, and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.' 11 For the LORD has ransomed Jacob, and has redeemed him from hands too strong for him. 12 They shall come and sing aloud on the height of Zion, and they shall be radiant over the goodness of the LORD, over the grain, the wine, and the oil, and over the young of the flock and the herd; their life shall be like a watered garden, and they shall languish no more. 13 Then shall the maidens rejoice in the dance, and the young men and the old shall be merry. I will turn their mourning into joy, I will comfort them, and give them gladness for sorrow. 14 I will feast the soul of the priests with abundance, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness, says the LORD." 15 Thus says the LORD: "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are not." 16 Thus says the LORD: "Keep your voice from weeping, and your eyes from tears; for your work shall be rewarded, says the LORD, and they shall come back from the land of the enemy. 17 There is hope for your future, says the LORD, and your children shall come back to their own country.”

As everyone can see, this speaks about Israel which went into exile, and of whom God says that they will return from the exile back to the land of Israel.


Another text which has no bearing on the slaughter of children in the days of messiah which is ripped out of context by the NT and is presented to us as a “messianic prophecy”.

Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matthew 2:23 “And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, "He shall be called a Nazarene."”

This prophecy won't take up much time, because you can go through the whole Hebrew Bible, and NOWHERE is it written that the messiah should live in Nazareth, or the he should be called “Nazarene”.

So the NT is also giving non-existing prophecies.

Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Matthew 26:14-15 "Then one of the twelve, who is called Judas Iscariot, having gone unto the chief priests, said, `What are ye willing to give me, and I will deliver him up to you?' and they weighed out to him thirty silverlings,"

Matthew 27: "3 When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 4 "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility." 5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." 7 So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. 8 That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

This OT text can by found in Zech 11:12 "I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter."

As we see here in Zechariah, there is no messiah to be seen who is being betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. And no potters fields are being bought in Zechariah.
As a matter of fact, in all of this text in Zechariah is no potter to be found.

No potter to be found?

No potter to be found.

The above translation of Zechariah 11:12 is from the New International Version. It says that Zechariah threw the money to the "potter" in the Temple.
In the Hebrew is written "yotseer". That can mean "potter", but it can also mean "treasurer".
In the Temple weren't any potters sitting around. Who was sitting there, was a treasurer, who accepted the gifts for the Temple.
So Zechariah doesn't speak about a potter, but about a treasurer.
This fact is recognized by the Revised Standard Version, it says here "treasurer" in stead of "potter".
Also Youngs Literal Translation says here "treasurer", and also the Contemporary English Version says here "treasury".
The Stone Edition of the Tanach says: "HASHEM (literally: "The Name) said to me, "Throw it to the treasurer of the Precious Stronghold which I have divested from them". So I threw it into the Temple of HASHEM, to the treasurer."
Also the New World Translation of the Watch Tower Society gives a good translation: At that, J-e-h-o-v-a-h said to me: “Throw it to the treasury—the majestic value with which I have been valued from their standpoint.” Accordingly I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw it into the treasury at the house of J-e-h-o-v-a-h."

So what we see here, is that there is no "potter" in Zechariah, and that the whole NT story about buying land of a potter has no bearing whatsoever on the text in Zechariah.



Also we have here a clear proof that the NT text is so orchestrated that it looks as if it fulfills OT prophecies. But because of the fact that they make here another mistake in the translation, the set up is clear to see for everybody.

And there is more. Look again to Matthew 27 and see what the Christians won't tell you: "9 Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

So here we see that Matthew claims that this text comes from Jeremiah, when in truth, it comes from Zechariah.
Another slip up of the New Testament which is supposedly divinely inspired.

Matthew was not capable of naming the right prophet.
And this is supposed to "proof" that JC is the messiah.

Well, with friends like Matthew, you don't need enemies anymore.

Next prophecy from the Tanach, as quoted by the NT:

Luke 24: “44 Then he said to them, "These are my words which I spoke to you, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, 46 and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.”

But the problem is: NOWHERE in the Tanach is it written that “the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.”

Another NT quote of OT prophecy which is nowhere to be found in the OT.
#2
(01-24-2014, 02:28 AM)Eliyahu Wrote: Bs’d

The NT brings us prophecies of which it claims that they are fulfilled by JC.
Preach it brother! Smile

Kol Hakavod.
#3
Eliyahu and Nachshon,
The law was fulfilled by Jesus.
Those many many years Israel lived were duplicated in the short 33 years Jesus had.
If you read about the 33 years of Jesus His life is very much Israel from Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, David, Jonah, many other Prophets, Moses.
As it happened to Israel so did it happen to Jesus the Messiah.
As the King of Israel Jesus went through what all Israel went through but was obedient as KING. Israel's King experience everything His people experienced. And he took their sufferings, their diseases and even their sins upon Himself. Can anyone have a greater KING, yet some did not recognize their KING. That is a King who Loves!
The temptations Israel went through, Jesus went through and defeated
.

1. Israel called the first born son of God, so is Jesus the True Son of God who came down from Heaven.
2. As Pharoah slew the first born of the Hebrews to try and kill the future deliverer Moses so did Herod slay the babies in Bethlehem to try and kill God's Messiah the deliverer.
3. As Israel went into Egypt in infantcy so did Jesus.
4. As Israel as a young son was called out of Egypt so was Jesus as a young Son.
5. As Israel spent 40 years in the wilderness so Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness. When He fights off the devil in the wilderness He quotes from the book of Deut. the book where the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness.
6. As Israel passed through the baptismal waters coming out of Egypt, so was Jesus baptised in the waters and delcared God's Son.
7. As Israel went up to the side of the Mountain to hear God speak His Law so did Jesus speak, teach His disciples from the side of the Mount.
8. As Moses and the 70 Elders went up to listen and fellowship with God, ate with God. So did Jesus speak and feed the Israelites with a few Fish and loaves.
9. As Moses was sent off and not recognized as Israel's deliverer the first time then came back so was Jesus who will also come back to rescue Israel at the end of Jacob's trouble. Jacobs trouble was to wrestle with God in darkness and he got hurt. After he got hurt He acknowleded who He wrestled with was God. He was named ISRAEL.
10. As it happened with David Saul not willing to give up his seat to David the same happened with Jesus.
11. Moses raised his staff and GOD'S breath divided the waters, Jesus spoke and the waters obeyed.
12. Joseph sold by his brethern, Jesus betrayed for money.

THIS CAN GO ON AND ON!
IN 33 YEARS OF THE MESSIAH,
JESUS WAS ISRAEL,
JESUS WAS THE DELIVERER AND HEALER,
JESUS WAS ISRAEL'S SUFFERING,
JESUS WAS ISRAEL'S KING OBEDIENT TO THE FATHER UNTO DEATH
JESUS WAS GOD WITH ISRAEL, HE TAUGHT, FED, CHASTISED, HEALED, SHEPHERD
JESUS WAS ISRAEL'S ATONEMENT, THE SACRIFICE


TRULY THE KING, MESSIAH OF ALL
#4
(01-24-2014, 11:09 AM)Tanachreader Wrote: Eliyahu and Nachshon,
The law was fulfilled by Jesus.
Those many many years Israel lived were duplicated in the short 33 years Jesus had.
If you read about the 33 years of Jesus His life is very much Israel from Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, David, Jonah, many other Prophets, Moses.
As it happened to Israel so did it happen to Jesus the Messiah.
As the King of Israel Jesus went through what all Israel went through but was obedient as KING. Israel's King experience everything His people experienced. And he took their sufferings, their diseases and even their sins upon Himself. Can anyone have a greater KING, yet some did not recognize their KING. That is a King who Loves!
The temptations Israel went through, Jesus went through and defeated
.
Can you respond directly to Eliyahu's post? So, just like Moses was given the laws of the Red Heifer in Numbers 19, then J-sus fulfilled these laws too since he came in contact with the dead?

Please read the thread "Yeshua and the Red Heifer".
#5
(01-24-2014, 11:28 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(01-24-2014, 11:09 AM)Tanachreader Wrote: Eliyahu and Nachshon,
The law was fulfilled by Jesus.
Those many many years Israel lived were duplicated in the short 33 years Jesus had.
If you read about the 33 years of Jesus His life is very much Israel from Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, David, Jonah, many other Prophets, Moses.
As it happened to Israel so did it happen to Jesus the Messiah.
As the King of Israel Jesus went through what all Israel went through but was obedient as KING. Israel's King experience everything His people experienced. And he took their sufferings, their diseases and even their sins upon Himself. Can anyone have a greater KING, yet some did not recognize their KING. That is a King who Loves!
The temptations Israel went through, Jesus went through and defeated
.
Can you respond directly to Eliyahu's post? So, just like Moses was given the laws of the Red Heifer in Numbers 19, then J-sus fulfilled these laws too since he came in contact with the dead?

Please read the thread "Yeshua and the Red Heifer".

Yeshua is much greater than Elijah.
1Ki:17:19: And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
...
1Ki:17:22: And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.Big Grin
#6
(01-24-2014, 12:12 PM)Tanachreader Wrote:
(01-24-2014, 11:28 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(01-24-2014, 11:09 AM)Tanachreader Wrote: Eliyahu and Nachshon,
The law was fulfilled by Jesus.
Those many many years Israel lived were duplicated in the short 33 years Jesus had.
If you read about the 33 years of Jesus His life is very much Israel from Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, David, Jonah, many other Prophets, Moses.
As it happened to Israel so did it happen to Jesus the Messiah.
As the King of Israel Jesus went through what all Israel went through but was obedient as KING. Israel's King experience everything His people experienced. And he took their sufferings, their diseases and even their sins upon Himself. Can anyone have a greater KING, yet some did not recognize their KING. That is a King who Loves!
The temptations Israel went through, Jesus went through and defeated
.
Can you respond directly to Eliyahu's post? So, just like Moses was given the laws of the Red Heifer in Numbers 19, then J-sus fulfilled these laws too since he came in contact with the dead?

Please read the thread "Yeshua and the Red Heifer".

Yeshua is much greater than Elijah.
1Ki:17:19: And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
...
1Ki:17:22: And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.Big Grin
You didn't reply directly to anything. Can you reply to his post? You're good at dodging the questions.
#7
(01-24-2014, 12:25 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(01-24-2014, 12:12 PM)Tanachreader Wrote:
(01-24-2014, 11:28 AM)Nachshon Wrote:
(01-24-2014, 11:09 AM)Tanachreader Wrote: Eliyahu and Nachshon,
The law was fulfilled by Jesus.
Those many many years Israel lived were duplicated in the short 33 years Jesus had.
If you read about the 33 years of Jesus His life is very much Israel from Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, David, Jonah, many other Prophets, Moses.
As it happened to Israel so did it happen to Jesus the Messiah.
As the King of Israel Jesus went through what all Israel went through but was obedient as KING. Israel's King experience everything His people experienced. And he took their sufferings, their diseases and even their sins upon Himself. Can anyone have a greater KING, yet some did not recognize their KING. That is a King who Loves!
The temptations Israel went through, Jesus went through and defeated
.
Can you respond directly to Eliyahu's post? So, just like Moses was given the laws of the Red Heifer in Numbers 19, then J-sus fulfilled these laws too since he came in contact with the dead?

Please read the thread "Yeshua and the Red Heifer".

Yeshua is much greater than Elijah.
1Ki:17:19: And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
...
1Ki:17:22: And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.Big Grin
You didn't reply directly to anything. Can you reply to his post? You're good at dodging the questions.
Nachshon you can not cleanse that which is clean. If you tried than you have waisted your time. We are not talking about washing up after a hard days work.
There was nothing a dead body could do to Jesus. He had the power to heal all disease.
Holy and Pure had no Sin
Yeshua is the Lord.
ONE thing He could not do is Sin so nothing, bulls, blood or ashes would be involved when the Lord is sinless.
#8
(01-24-2014, 02:48 PM)Tanachreader Wrote: Nachshon you can not cleanse that which is clean. If you tried than you have waisted your time. We are not talking about washing up after a hard days work.
There was nothing a dead body could do to Jesus. He had the power to heal all disease.
Holy and Pure had no Sin
Yeshua is the Lord.
ONE thing He could not do is Sin so nothing, bulls, blood or ashes would be involved when the Lord is sinless.
The problem is J-sus became unclean by contact with the dead. There's no avoiding this. And if he was perfect in the law, then he would have to be cleansed by the "waters for purification for sin", from the Red Heifer, Numbers 19. You admittedly say he took on sin, so he is no longer sinless, or god.

Your approach has contradictions, galore!
#9
(01-24-2014, 03:01 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(01-24-2014, 02:48 PM)Tanachreader Wrote: Nachshon you can not cleanse that which is clean. If you tried than you have waisted your time. We are not talking about washing up after a hard days work.
There was nothing a dead body could do to Jesus. He had the power to heal all disease.
Holy and Pure had no Sin
Yeshua is the Lord.
ONE thing He could not do is Sin so nothing, bulls, blood or ashes would be involved when the Lord is sinless.
The problem is J-sus became unclean by contact with the dead. There's no avoiding this. And if he was perfect in the law, then he would have to be cleansed by the "waters for purification for sin", from the Red Heifer, Numbers 19. You admittedly say he took on sin, so he is no longer sinless, or god.

Your approach has contradictions, galore!

No they became clean by Him. He did the works of His Father to clean and polish
#10
(01-24-2014, 03:26 PM)Tanachreader Wrote:
(01-24-2014, 03:01 PM)Nachshon Wrote:
(01-24-2014, 02:48 PM)Tanachreader Wrote: Nachshon you can not cleanse that which is clean. If you tried than you have waisted your time. We are not talking about washing up after a hard days work.
There was nothing a dead body could do to Jesus. He had the power to heal all disease.
Holy and Pure had no Sin
Yeshua is the Lord.
ONE thing He could not do is Sin so nothing, bulls, blood or ashes would be involved when the Lord is sinless.
The problem is J-sus became unclean by contact with the dead. There's no avoiding this. And if he was perfect in the law, then he would have to be cleansed by the "waters for purification for sin", from the Red Heifer, Numbers 19. You admittedly say he took on sin, so he is no longer sinless, or god.

Your approach has contradictions, galore!

No they became clean by Him. He did the works of His Father to clean and polish
Numbers 19 - even the person appying the "waters for purification of sin" becomes defiled himself. Please go back and read the thread "Yeshua and the Red Heifer".


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